Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Haven't seen it, just saying what I heard from RGE and Clownfish TV.
Anime & Manga "Infamous" Anime
- Thread starter Captain X
- Start date
MrBirthday
Agent of Catgirl Genocide
I think I'll drop my old comment (October 16th, 2020) from a PM here:
Well, really, even if they'd managed to make something good, the entire rationale behind the site was supposed to be online streaming in a way they (allegedly) directly supported the anime industry. So all that money was supposed to go toward licensing anime anyway, not making their own production.
MrBirthday
Agent of Catgirl Genocide
*shrugs* Overall, the Crunchyroll Originals effort was a CN Real (remember that?) level disaster. Looking back at it, one kind of gets the feeling that they were dreading the falling of the ax, and were trying to better justify their existence to their corporate overlords.
Definitely not the case with High Guardian Spice and others of its ilk, but I'd argue that the Originals that were co-productions between Crunchyroll and various anime studios count as supporting the industry.
MrBirthday
Agent of Catgirl Genocide
And what do you call them co-producing anime adaptations for Tower of God, The God of High School, and In/Spectre?
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
So another one that was pretty infamous, possibly not as much today, is Ninja Cadets.
It has the historical significance of being the first anime ever to be burned to DVD which... I guess means something and got it a slight popularity boost that soon turned to notoriety. The plot is fairly tame. Basically, a kingdom in the warring states period is wiped out and the sole surviving member of royalty is secretly enrolled in the clan's tiny surviving hidden ninja clan, fast forward a few years and they've grown up along with several other members and are prepared to graduate, so they get their first mission... Yes, fairly Naruto-like and possibly there was some inspiration there but it's also a pretty generic idea, so maybe not. The problem is there're numerous plot holes (The princess can be identified by a cross-shaped birthmark on her shoulder, which we can clearly see none of the girls have in the obligatory onsen scene just before this tidbit is released) and not much really going for the story. It ended after just two episodes with pretty much nothing resolved. Also somewhat infamous for enemy ninja squad commander Jame, whose hair was outrageous even by the standards of 90s anime.
Jokes aside, I actually rather like Jame's design. Yes, she looks like a demon-possessed stalk of broccoli but the insane hair and emaciated limbs that have slightly wrong proportions (all her limbs and too long for her torso and her fingers are too long for her limbs) give her a distinct otherworldly look and put her in the uncanny valley; exactly where a supernatural creepy menace is supposed to be.
But wait.. that hair shape... could this be a descendant?
No, I'm insulting Jame too much there.
It has the historical significance of being the first anime ever to be burned to DVD which... I guess means something and got it a slight popularity boost that soon turned to notoriety. The plot is fairly tame. Basically, a kingdom in the warring states period is wiped out and the sole surviving member of royalty is secretly enrolled in the clan's tiny surviving hidden ninja clan, fast forward a few years and they've grown up along with several other members and are prepared to graduate, so they get their first mission... Yes, fairly Naruto-like and possibly there was some inspiration there but it's also a pretty generic idea, so maybe not. The problem is there're numerous plot holes (The princess can be identified by a cross-shaped birthmark on her shoulder, which we can clearly see none of the girls have in the obligatory onsen scene just before this tidbit is released) and not much really going for the story. It ended after just two episodes with pretty much nothing resolved. Also somewhat infamous for enemy ninja squad commander Jame, whose hair was outrageous even by the standards of 90s anime.
Jokes aside, I actually rather like Jame's design. Yes, she looks like a demon-possessed stalk of broccoli but the insane hair and emaciated limbs that have slightly wrong proportions (all her limbs and too long for her torso and her fingers are too long for her limbs) give her a distinct otherworldly look and put her in the uncanny valley; exactly where a supernatural creepy menace is supposed to be.
But wait.. that hair shape... could this be a descendant?
No, I'm insulting Jame too much there.
Undertone
Active member
You can beat up on laughably bad stinkers like Garzey's Wing all day... you can list any number of H titles whose most entertaining aspect was the pun used to market the show to English language buyers... but ultimately what impacts the fandom the most, what is true infamy, are the shows that everyone has seen that don't have many redeeming factors.
By this standard, the primary offender is Neon Genesis Evangelion. And actually, nobody in the fandom really disagrees that it sucks, as the crux of the argument that tends to ensue is "Actually, it's supposed to suck!"
Seems a bit infamous, hmmmm? But it gets worse: Evangelion is the worst show that is most likely to appear on a newbie's first anime watchlist. This show, which often gets people turned off anime forever, is commonly recommended as a second or even first show to watch, by anime fans who maybe remember off the top of their heads the top five most memorable and significant shows they've seen, but haven't recently paid attention to how messed up Eva really is. It's a giant orange stain on the anime fandom and is absolutely not famous for the right reasons.
By this standard, the primary offender is Neon Genesis Evangelion. And actually, nobody in the fandom really disagrees that it sucks, as the crux of the argument that tends to ensue is "Actually, it's supposed to suck!"
Seems a bit infamous, hmmmm? But it gets worse: Evangelion is the worst show that is most likely to appear on a newbie's first anime watchlist. This show, which often gets people turned off anime forever, is commonly recommended as a second or even first show to watch, by anime fans who maybe remember off the top of their heads the top five most memorable and significant shows they've seen, but haven't recently paid attention to how messed up Eva really is. It's a giant orange stain on the anime fandom and is absolutely not famous for the right reasons.
bintananth
behind a desk
Elfen Lied
I will not provide any links because even the version of it which aired on TV in Japan was heavily censored. A best seller in the US entirely due to word of mouth.
Pretty good music and artwork. The OP is meant to look like Gustav Klimt's artwork and the song lyrics are in Latin. The ED song is partially in English, sounds cheerful, and is about unrequieted love.
If you a see a naked girl, and you will, she's been abused and is having a very bad day.
I will not provide any links because even the version of it which aired on TV in Japan was heavily censored. A best seller in the US entirely due to word of mouth.
Pretty good music and artwork. The OP is meant to look like Gustav Klimt's artwork and the song lyrics are in Latin. The ED song is partially in English, sounds cheerful, and is about unrequieted love.
If you a see a naked girl, and you will, she's been abused and is having a very bad day.
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
Not even exaggerating. Every thing you said of what I quoted was wrong.
NGE doesn't suck, and it absolutely isn't something any sane person would recommend as someone's second or third anime. I don't think I would recommend it as someone's 10th anime.
No, Elfen Lied is not infamous. Conflating horror movie level graphical level content with infamy is just ridiculous, especially in an age where things like The Boys and Invincible are close to mainstream.
bintananth
behind a desk
I disagree.
Elfen Lied uses a shoujo art style typically intended for an audience of young girls to tell a horror story where committing war crimes doesn't automatically make the character one of the irredeemable "bad guys".
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Not even exaggerating. Every thing you said of what I quoted was wrong.
Probably not anymore, because old, but it absolutely used to be at the top of everyone's list of shows any aspiring otaku just had to watch. As for it sucking, yeah, it does, but I'm not going to get into it again because I've already written multiple reviews of it. The pattern I tend to see is that the people who like the show and its protagonist tend to identify with him.
This just makes me think you must've hung out in very different corners of the fandom than I did. Elfen Lied was absolutely seen as infamous, not only because of the graphic violence, but because of its graphic nudity, and how often those things tended to overlap. It and something like Higurashi were quite the shock to a lot of fans, at least of my generation and younger, who missed out on the stuff that was honestly way more graphic that had come out earlier. Incidentally, I have problems with this show, too, which don't really have much to do with any of that, but it is selling that show short to claim it wasn't infamous in any kind of way.
Undertone
Active member
Elfen Lied is absolutely worthy of infamy. And it's another one of those shows that was fairly huge in its own time, but seems to have dropped off the face of the Earth. Unlike Eva, which is supposedly over but could always come back after the universe ends like Future Diary.
Oh wait.
Future Diary.
Yeah...
I'd say Future Diary is right inside the line for true infamy. There's a lot of heinous things going on, but there's always a character around to have some moral indignation or "do the right thing" in reply. As opposed to Elfen Lied, where we're supposed to sit back and accept Lucy's present state of excess violence as righteous payback for abuses in her past, and as relatively sane and humane when compared to the other Diclonius.
I really need to go back and do my research about which did the whole "It's cute, but suddenly horror" thing first, as it's a pretty wide category in anime. Blood+, Higurashi, Doki Doki Literature Club (for which I assume there *will* be an anime at some point), even Excel Saga did it for giggles, but Future Diary takes it all to its logical endpoint, where the universe itself was created for the sole purpose of your insane crush hoping you'll finally consent. Fortunately, free will is still a thing no matter how many Big Bangs you wait through.
I'd also argue that The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is in this same category as well, and that Yuno Gasai's plotline is fairly close to what would happen if people would only call Haruhi on all her bullshit.
Oh wait.
Future Diary.
Yeah...
I'd say Future Diary is right inside the line for true infamy. There's a lot of heinous things going on, but there's always a character around to have some moral indignation or "do the right thing" in reply. As opposed to Elfen Lied, where we're supposed to sit back and accept Lucy's present state of excess violence as righteous payback for abuses in her past, and as relatively sane and humane when compared to the other Diclonius.
I really need to go back and do my research about which did the whole "It's cute, but suddenly horror" thing first, as it's a pretty wide category in anime. Blood+, Higurashi, Doki Doki Literature Club (for which I assume there *will* be an anime at some point), even Excel Saga did it for giggles, but Future Diary takes it all to its logical endpoint, where the universe itself was created for the sole purpose of your insane crush hoping you'll finally consent. Fortunately, free will is still a thing no matter how many Big Bangs you wait through.
I'd also argue that The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is in this same category as well, and that Yuno Gasai's plotline is fairly close to what would happen if people would only call Haruhi on all her bullshit.
bintananth
behind a desk
Forgot about that one.Future Diary.
Yeah...
Yuno Gasai: "Absolutely batshit axe crazy, complete with axe."
Lucy had an excuse and showed at least some restraint. Yuno ... not so much.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Evangelion had its moments, the problem is that the creator wants to recreate the success of what he did when he was younger, suicidal and on drugs, and to convince us that what must have been randomness fueled by temporary insanity, stress and desperation had some deeper message and idea behind it.
Also, it rips off everything from The Prisoner to Nausicaa.
That reminds me, we need to list almost everything made by Gainax:
FLCL
P&S
Kill la Kill.
Darling in the FRANXXX.
All infamous for different reasons, from acid trip, to total random over the top insanity, to giant robots one would actually like to bang.
Also, it rips off everything from The Prisoner to Nausicaa.
That reminds me, we need to list almost everything made by Gainax:
FLCL
P&S
Kill la Kill.
Darling in the FRANXXX.
All infamous for different reasons, from acid trip, to total random over the top insanity, to giant robots one would actually like to bang.
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
... Using that art style for horror was done well before Elden Lied, and adult shows using standard anime art styles is... standard.
Daily reminder that anime has a huge adult audience in Japan, and the art styles of adult oriented anime are usually not too far from the art style of regular anime.
NGE is a great metaphor for what happens to depressed and lonely males in a society without healthy male role models; Shinji is not a role model or a good person.
But just because the story doesn't deal with masculine men like TTGL doesn't make it a bad anime.
I only ever read the Higurashi VN, but overall I found it tame. Higurashi's anime is generally considered a bad adaptation though.
I'm fairly young for this forum (young enough I didn't grow up watching Dragonball at all) and it didn't shock me.
No, we are not supposed to sit back and accept Lucy's excess violence, someone didn't read the manga and finish the story.
Someone hasn't had a bipolar mother. I'm not surprised Yuno went insane at all.
Also the idea of a crazy ride or die bitch is kinda hot to some people. That doesn't mean I'd want to date someone that insane and extreme in real life, but its functionally no different than having a main girl in a show that's some other exaggeration of a type.
Excluding Kill la Kill, none of those are good.
But I feel like calling them infamous is stretching the definition.
Like, is NGE or FLCL really INFAMOUS in the same way that Bible Black or Boku no Pico is? The idea is ridiculous on the face of it.
bintananth
behind a desk
You're right, I don't have a bipolar mom.
My take:
Lucy would not harm anyone Kouta cared about if she knew he cared about them. Yuno would harm anyone who got between her and Yukiteru.
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
... have you read the manga?
Yes, but:
#1: In reality 1 Yuno believed she would be able to resurrect anyone she wanted. She's completely shocked when she becomes god and can't resurrect Yuki.
#2: In reality 2 Yuno is depressed because she realizes either she or Yuki has to die for the world to be saved, and she was intending from the beginning to go back in time and redo everything after her, uh, happy ending. There's not much moral weight to killing when you're a time traveler whose planning on scrapping this timeline anyway.