How does attacking in both melee and ranged give a feeling of impact in videogames?

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
This is something I wondered, when playing games like Fallout and Elder Scrolls where even with highly upgraded and kickass weaponry. Using them doesn’t exactly feel like they “hit”.

Whereas when I play Soulsborne and Metroidvania games as well as ones like NiER Automata, hitting things actually gives a sort of rush or feeling of impqvt

What is it that gives this feeling exactly?
 
It's a variety of things working together, but weapon feedback ultimately breaks down to visual and sound design, and timing. It's the interplay of what happens and how it lines up with your expectations and your interaction. When you fire a shotgun at someone, does it sound powerful? Does the sound of your shot connecting sound like it's doing damage? Is the way their body reacts consistent with this? Is damage consistent with where you aimed?

What feels right isn't always realistic, such as the body flying backwards from a shot with a conventional firearm, but it's about generating a specific feeling that seems right. It's like when you see a fist fight in a movie vs. watching a fight in real life. It doesn't make those thudding sounds when you hit a person, but it's an audiovisual medium, and all you have are audio and visuals. If you've ever been in a fight, you know that hitting someone or getting hit feels a lot more significant that it might look for a bystander. But they can't do anything about that tactile sensation, so they use sound.

A great example of how feedback is done well is to look at Brutal Doom. I know not everyone likes it, or the guy that made it, but he solidly understands feedback in ways I didn't even realize were lacking.



I especially like his take on the plasma gun. The original, as is the case with a lot of energy type weapons in games, fails to have the same oomph that regular guns do. This is because of the ambiguity attached. We all have a pretty good idea of what a bullet does to someone, even if the feedback isn't great, so our imagination fills in some of the gaps. A plasma gun is more vague, since it doesn't exist. You have glowing blue orbs that make someone die. Kind of anticlimactic. They might as well be magic. Well he clears that ambiguity up. They burn. They char the crap out of anything they hit. Suddenly it becomes a lot more satisfying.

Not for nothing, that's also why old cartoons tended to use pew pew laser guns, instead of real guns. It was to make it more vague for the audience and censors, and let them play fast and loose with the violence level. We know what someone getting shot does, and you can't have that on a children's show. But a not-laser blast? Who the fuck knows, and they can do whatever they want with that without it seeming immediately nonsensical that he took a shot to the chest and isn't dead.
 
Issue is, a new engine costs a lot, even if the development is kept in-studio. It's not a "Playerbase demands a new engine, hop to it! Done!" situation. It's more "This has worked all the time, we made improvements of all sorts, playerbase makes mods with it, why should we change it?"

Okay, got a point there, that said from what I know stuff like the settlement building of Fallout 4 was made from Fallout 3

I remember seeing a Soulslike Combat mod for Skyrim....honestly that felt more like how melee combat should have been
 
It's about feedback, mostly. Skyrim pays a little lip service to it, but often weapons still feel underwhelming. Compare it to God of War 4, where significant time was put in to making each swing of Kratos's axe impactful. Kratos moves, the enemy moves, the axe doesn't just slide off the model, it sticks in for a split second.
 
It's about feedback, mostly. Skyrim pays a little lip service to it, but often weapons still feel underwhelming. Compare it to God of War 4, where significant time was put in to making each swing of Kratos's axe impactful. Kratos moves, the enemy moves, the axe doesn't just slide off the model, it sticks in for a split second.

Guess that explains it, even anime-soulslike Code Vein managed that, though it still slides off a little before the second or third hit where the enemy mook really gets off balance
 
Bethesda games have always had poor combat that seemed like an afterthought. You could probably blame it on them trying to do the open world RPG thing first, and not viewing it primarily as a combat game. That's a total copout and poor excuse, but it's all they've got. They just don't seem to have a design philosophy that puts a lot of focus and energy into making melee combat interesting.
 
Bethesda games have always had poor combat that seemed like an afterthought. You could probably blame it on them trying to do the open world RPG thing first, and not viewing it primarily as a combat game. That's a total copout and poor excuse, but it's all they've got. They just don't seem to have a design philosophy that puts a lot of focus and energy into making melee combat interesting.
The RPG aspect has been downgraded more and more too.
 
From a complete layman's position (and perhaps even expanding outwards to movies or comics), I'd say a lot of it has to do with the sound design--or, in the case of comics, with the way the 'format' emphasizes sound such as the way the old Batman comics (and movies) did the really dramatic 'BAFF' 'BIFF' 'KERSPLAT' sound-effect bubbles. In movies and video games those can be more realistically/authentically presented using sounds, such as the impact of a fist or the sound of a sword swinging.

Games give you control over when and how those sounds get used, and potentially have 'interruptions' to them as a player gets hit or reconsiders their attack (the sound of summoning/charging a spell or nocking an arrow being subtly different oftentimes to the sound of casting a spell or shooting an arrow). Then, as very eloquently described, there are all sorts of feedback and impact consequences that a game can be designed to account for (or not).
 
@prinCZess
Speaking of comics, I notice that many of the Western comics I read from the 2000s to 2010s don’t exactly have a feeling of impact and well actual epic right scenes, unless they’re European comics
 
One of the best melee systems in any game I've played was Dark Messiah. Mordhau is also really good too.

I'd debate that with Dark Messiah. The magic was great, the level design and physics stuff was great, but melee combat itself never really felt quite right. There was no feedback when you got parried, very little feedback when you or the enemy got a hit in, special attacks were complicated and hard to pull off when needed, etc.

It wasn't terrible either, but I think it's also clear the game was designed more around the mage/thief playstyle compared to warrior.
 
I'd debate that with Dark Messiah. The magic was great, the level design and physics stuff was great, but melee combat itself never really felt quite right. There was no feedback when you got parried, very little feedback when you or the enemy got a hit in, special attacks were complicated and hard to pull off when needed, etc.

It wasn't terrible either, but I think it's also clear the game was designed more around the mage/thief playstyle compared to warrior.
I always found the combat to be pretty solid and... chunky is how I remember it. One of the hardest and best bits is when you get back into a city after some tunnels and you come across some demonic gimps. If you're skilled enough, you can kill all three in melee combat without needing the health upgrades (which I usually ignored).
 
I always found the combat to be pretty solid and... chunky is how I remember it. One of the hardest and best bits is when you get back into a city after some tunnels and you come across some demonic gimps. If you're skilled enough, you can kill all three in melee combat without needing the health upgrades (which I usually ignored).

If you play mage, you can just casually-ish fireball all three of them without effort or skill or damage.
 
Issue is, a new engine costs a lot, even if the development is kept in-studio. It's not a "Playerbase demands a new engine, hop to it! Done!" situation. It's more "This has worked all the time, we made improvements of all sorts, playerbase makes mods with it, why should we change it?"
No, Zenimax won't allow that to happen because that time making an engine isn't time making games. Game engine building takes years to complete, bug check, develop development kits for, compatibility checks, etc. before it is ready, and you'll never get the most until you get several games out on the engine.
 
No, Zenimax won't allow that to happen because that time making an engine isn't time making games. Game engine building takes years to complete, bug check, develop development kits for, compatibility checks, etc. before it is ready, and you'll never get the most until you get several games out on the engine.

Huh, the guys making mods I see seem to deliver some impact
 
Huh, the guys making mods I see seem to deliver some impact
Yeah, but that is working within an engine, not creating one from scratch or using Unity or some other third party engine and create the peripherals you need for your games (which also takes time and money to accomplish). A difference that no one likes to talk about.
 

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