How can conservatives effect change?

[Prince Ire]

Telling people to not send their children to university is dead on arrival. Trade school is an option yes (though if more people pick it, the pay of the jobs it opens up will go down as eligible workers for said jobs increase), but you will have to go to either trade school or university in the future. In 2019, 35% of US adults had college degrees. Not 35% of Millienials or Zoomers; 35% of all adults across all generations. The percentage among the younger generations is higher. To put that in perspective, in 1960 the percentage of all US adults who had high school diplomas was 40%. College degrees are almost as common now as high school diplomas were 60 years ago, and there's no reason to doubt that they will continue on the trend that high school diplomas went of becoming nigh universal. In the coming decades, only the most menial and lowest paid jobs (if they aren't just automated out of existence) will be available to people without college degrees. You won't be able to start a business without a college degree because you won't be able to get a loan.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Telling people to not send their children to university is dead on arrival. Trade school is an option yes (though if more people pick it, the pay of the jobs it opens up will go down as eligible workers for said jobs increase), but you will have to go to either trade school or university in the future. In 2019, 35% of US adults had college degrees. Not 35% of Millienials or Zoomers; 35% of all adults across all generations. The percentage among the younger generations is higher. To put that in perspective, in 1960 the percentage of all US adults who had high school diplomas was 40%. College degrees are almost as common now as high school diplomas were 60 years ago, and there's no reason to doubt that they will continue on the trend that high school diplomas went of becoming nigh universal. In the coming decades, only the most menial and lowest paid jobs (if they aren't just automated out of existence) will be available to people without college degrees. You won't be able to start a business without a college degree because you won't be able to get a loan.

so in other words an entire population of indentured servitude unless the college system is reworked. again, are we sure we aren't already in the Great Reset?

 

[LordsFire]

and there's no reason to doubt that they will continue

1. A four-year degree costs massively more than a high school degree.
2. An enormous number of those degrees are literally useless for getting a job.
3. Children are required by law to attend grade school in most places. That is not the case with universities.
4. Child labor laws do not prevent 18-22 year olds from seeking full-time employment.

There's plenty of reason to expect the trend to change. Granted, it could also continue, but 'no reason' is certainly not true.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

1. A four-year degree costs massively more than a high school degree.
2. An enormous number of those degrees are literally useless for getting a job.
3. Children are required by law to attend grade school in most places. That is not the case with universities.
4. Child labor laws do not prevent 18-22 year olds from seeking full-time employment.

There's plenty of reason to expect the trend to change. Granted, it could also continue, but 'no reason' is certainly not true.

Well, said universities are essentially funded by unlimited tax money

It's also gonna take awhile for people to start complaining en masse about all those degrees that are useless because they maybe too afraid of getting cancelled even if they see and point out how the tax money goes into stuff with little to do with actual education and the like

Also, I think he was referring to being able to get or do Middle-to-Upper Class jobs or building their own based around said higher level skills

 

[LordsFire]

Well, said universities are essentially funded by unlimited tax money

It's also gonna take awhile for people to start complaining en masse about all those degrees that are useless because they maybe too afraid of getting cancelled even if they see and point out how the tax money goes into stuff with little to do with actual education and the like

Also, I think he was referring to being able to get or do Middle-to-Upper Class jobs or building their own based around said higher level skills

That complaining started being widespread a decade ago, and it's entirely possible to get middle-to-upper class jobs without a college degree. Manager at a small business, which can then turn into owning your own, some trades are extremely highly-paid (do you know what an underwater welder makes?), any number of self-starter businesses.

Going to college is certainly required for some forms of middle and upper class work, but by no means all.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

That complaining started being widespread a decade ago, and it's entirely possible to get middle-to-upper class jobs without a college degree. Manager at a small business, which can then turn into owning your own, some trades are extremely highly-paid (do you know what an underwater welder makes?), any number of self-starter businesses.

Going to college is certainly required for some forms of middle and upper class work, but by no means all.

In-Hindsight, there's a sort of advantage to having a relatively younger yet skilled employee/manager base, you may get them faster than those guys from said colleges

Also, got reminded of a talk with one of my Elder Sisters, apparently for some companies all they care about here is that you actually went to college, may not even fucking care WHAT your degree was on to begin with....so it's also a variation of nepotism or cronyism or just trying to get guys who would "look good" on paper without actually reading said paper by much

 

[Terthna]

Telling people to not send their children to university is dead on arrival. Trade school is an option yes (though if more people pick it, the pay of the jobs it opens up will go down as eligible workers for said jobs increase), but you will have to go to either trade school or university in the future. In 2019, 35% of US adults had college degrees. Not 35% of Millienials or Zoomers; 35% of all adults across all generations. The percentage among the younger generations is higher. To put that in perspective, in 1960 the percentage of all US adults who had high school diplomas was 40%. College degrees are almost as common now as high school diplomas were 60 years ago, and there's no reason to doubt that they will continue on the trend that high school diplomas went of becoming nigh universal. In the coming decades, only the most menial and lowest paid jobs (if they aren't just automated out of existence) will be available to people without college degrees. You won't be able to start a business without a college degree because you won't be able to get a loan.

One small problem with that prediction; employers don't want to hire collage graduates. Because they are, by and large, utterly incapable of doing anything without constant supervision and direction.

 

[LordsFire]

One small problem with that prediction; employers don't want to hire collage graduates. Because they are, by and large, utterly incapable of doing anything without constant supervision and direction.

STEM graduates tend to suffer less from that, especially extremely practical professions, but it is true far too often.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

One small problem with that prediction; employers don't want to hire collage graduates. Because they are, by and large, utterly incapable of doing anything without constant supervision and direction.

Wait, what?

Also, you sure employers or HR are aware of this?

 

[Terthna]

Wait, what?

Also, you sure employers or HR are aware of this?

It's what I've heard from employers, on forums and podcasts and social media; they hate hiring collage graduates because they have to constantly baby them. They complain about how they're constantly coming to them with questions like "how do I do this", "what should I do next", et cetera, et cetera; and how they don't act on their own initiative. Admittedly though, this seems to be more a thing with small and medium-sized businesses; I suppose the largest corporations want mindless drones.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Not attending university is just another form of conservative retreatism. "I find it unpleasant. im not going to fight, im just going to go home and grill"

Universities are a power locus. Our goal is to reconquer these locii, or failing that to destroy them and replace them. Retreatism accomplishes none of that. We need a sociology and a humanities that supports us, and a place to build our own elites. For that we need universities or some equivalent.

 

[Julio92]

Not attending university is just another form of conservative retreatism. "I find it unpleasant. im not going to fight, im just going to go home and grill"

Universities are a power locus. Our goal is to reconquer these locii, or failing that to destroy them and replace them. Retreatism accomplishes none of that. We need a sociology and a humanities that supports us, and a place to build our own elites. For that we need universities or some equivalent.

This is why STEM is a cope, albeit a necessary one, with how dispossessed of an contemporary intellectual cohort the right is. From material wealth, will spring forth the funds to continue to survive against such monstrous odds.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

This is why STEM is a cope, albeit a necessary one, with how dispossessed of an contemporary intellectual cohort the right is. From material wealth, will spring forth the funds to continue to survive against such monstrous odds.

Its a terrible cope, because STEM isnt a refuge. If it was, silicon valley would not be our enemy.

We need critique, a vocabulary and an alternative and for that we need an intellectual class.

 

[Julio92]

Its a terrible cope, because STEM isnt a refuge. If it was, silicon valley would not be our enemy.

We need critique, a vocabulary and an alternative and for that we need an intellectual class.

My point was that you need money for an intellectual class.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

My point was that you need money for an intellectual class.

You also have to hope said new money-intellectual class doesn't try doing whatever they can to get into the rich-douchebag-champagne-socialist club/cliques

Though, in some cases they'd be removed against their will

Not attending university is just another form of conservative retreatism. "I find it unpleasant. im not going to fight, im just going to go home and grill"

Universities are a power locus. Our goal is to reconquer these locii, or failing that to destroy them and replace them. Retreatism accomplishes none of that. We need a sociology and a humanities that supports us, and a place to build our own elites. For that we need universities or some equivalent.

You know, in-hindsight contrary to mockeries I hear from guys who like shitting on Libertarians, from what I know said Libertarians actually have read more than Atlas Shrugged

And I think a surprising number of people never knew that guys like Thomas Sowell ever existed let alone what Ayn Rand actually says or believes

"Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man’s genetic lineage — the notion that a man’s intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry. Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors."
-by Ayn Rand

Or what other intellectuals inspired by her and others have to say

The Return of Slavery, The Atlas Society | Ayn Rand, Objectivism, Atlas Shrugged

There are some plagues that mankind seems to be incapable of fully destroying. One of these plagues is slavery, which has existed since man

www.atlassociety.org

If you guys make your own Humanities and Sociology Classes....safe to say they'll get shat on by the media the "new Mein Kampf" even if the professor's black

So you might not get many who'd openly choose to go to said classes in fear of being cancelled

 

[absenceofmalice]

Telling people to not send their children to university is dead on arrival. Trade school is an option yes (though if more people pick it, the pay of the jobs it opens up will go down as eligible workers for said jobs increase), but you will have to go to either trade school or university in the future. In 2019, 35% of US adults had college degrees. Not 35% of Millienials or Zoomers; 35% of all adults across all generations. The percentage among the younger generations is higher. To put that in perspective, in 1960 the percentage of all US adults who had high school diplomas was 40%. College degrees are almost as common now as high school diplomas were 60 years ago, and there's no reason to doubt that they will continue on the trend that high school diplomas went of becoming nigh universal. In the coming decades, only the most menial and lowest paid jobs (if they aren't just automated out of existence) will be available to people without college degrees. You won't be able to start a business without a college degree because you won't be able to get a loan.

Non professional degrees have been worth less and less not more and more as they've become more common. Those menial labor jobs are worth more than a twenty year debt certificate without a job.

 

[LordsFire]

Not attending university is just another form of conservative retreatism. "I find it unpleasant. im not going to fight, im just going to go home and grill"

Universities are a power locus. Our goal is to reconquer these locii, or failing that to destroy them and replace them. Retreatism accomplishes none of that. We need a sociology and a humanities that supports us, and a place to build our own elites. For that we need universities or some equivalent.

How, exactly, do you expect conservatives to take back over state/public universities? Progressives explicitly refuse to hire people who don't agree with them once they've taken over an institution.

Also, in case you aren't aware, there already are a fair number of non-leftist colleges and universities throughout the country, Hillsdale and Liberty University being fairly well-known names, and a variety of Christian institutions like Moody Bible Institute also existing. Further developing such places, as well as founding more, is far more likely to be productive than trying to invade lunatic asylums run by the inmates.

 

[Fleiur]

How, exactly, do you expect conservatives to take back over state/public universities? Progressives explicitly refuse to hire people who don't agree with them once they've taken over an institution.

Also, in case you aren't aware, there already are a fair number of non-leftist colleges and universities throughout the country, Hillsdale and Liberty University being fairly well-known names, and a variety of Christian institutions like Moody Bible Institute also existing. Further developing such places, as well as founding more, is far more likely to be productive than trying to invade lunatic asylums run by the inmates.

Ivy League schools are there to stay. Like it or not, they still dominate the university system. Better that conservatives fight for them rather than surrender. That's what conservatives have been doing: retreat, surrender, retreat.

 

[absenceofmalice]

Ivy League schools are there to stay. Like it or not, they still dominate the university system. Better that conservatives fight for them rather than surrender. That's what conservatives have been doing: retreat, surrender, retreat.

Conservatives retreating from poisoned ground they never should have moved to is not bad. Some ground deserves to be left to ruin.

 

[Fleiur]

Conservatives retreating from poisoned ground they never should have moved to is not bad. Some ground deserves to be left to ruin.

Places are that way because conservatives didn't fight in the place. If conservatives had fought originally, the leftists wouldn't have gained such an iron grip on Harvard, Yale, etc. By being not caring about colleges, conservatives lost so many of them to the enemy.