History Historical Myth Debunked: Communism Unnecessary for Russian Industrialisation

Tyanna of Pentos

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I am also going to double-down and observe that the problem with Russia's political system before 1906 wasn't the autocracy per say, but the Pauline laws. Before the Pauline laws in the 17th-18th century, the best person became Tsar. They didn't even have to be a member of the Imperial Family (Catherine II) and indeed they could even be a Lithuanian peasant (Catherine I). Fortune favoured the bold, and the inheritance operated on the Byzantine scheme. Once Paul put an end to this at the beginning of the 19th century it was guaranteed that less capable rulers would come to the throne, and that set the stage for 1905-1906. Before the Pauline laws, someone like Nicholas II would have never been Tsar... Or at least not for very long.
 
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Scottty

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This article seems to be considering only two out of many possible timelines - either no Bolshevik revolution and Russia remains a monarchy, or the Soviet Union under Stalin.
But what about the Soviet Union - but not under Stalin?

I get the impression that most of the Bolsheviks who came to power under Lenin had no intention of building up or developing anything - their unstated goal was simply to burn down the Russian Empire while toasting marshmallows to the flames, have a fun time mass-murdering all the people who were in any way their betters, and then wander off in search of other countries they could do the same to.
It was Stalin who purged them, and set about actually "building socialism".
 

PsihoKekec

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There were actually two factions, one was in favor of radical colectivization, while the other was willing to extend NEP for entire generation, gradually preparing people for true socialism. Stalin played them against each other to sieze full power, then purfed them (soft purge at first).There was also Trotsky but all factions were united against him.
 

Lord Invictus

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There was the left opposition.

Primarily the idea was that the revolution would spread to an industrially developed country like Germany, and then the Russian revolution would have access to more manpower, technical expertise, and so on.

But Russia was a backwards state and ended up a war torn wreck after the civil war.

So “socialism in one country” was a means of dealing with that situation.
 

PsihoKekec

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That was Trotsky, by the time Lenin died most of leadership gave up on these delusions, that is why he was so quickly neutralized.
 

Lord Invictus

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Lenin had the same hope. That the revolution would spread to far more developed countries and thus bring Russia up to standard.

I would say that dream died, when Rosa and Karl's bodies were thrown in the canal.
 

PsihoKekec

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I would say the dream finally died when Pilsudski launched the counterattack in the battle of Warsaw. Before that defeat they still hoped that presence of the Red Army on German border would inspire proletariat to rise up.
 

Lord Invictus

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Fundamentally they needed a communist Germany. Only a communist Germany would give any hope for the Russian revolution to not be internationally isolated, communist revolutions indigenous or based on red army rifles in eastern Europe would not have been sufficient.

Of course this operates under the assumption that it was a viable project at all. Which it wasn't if we disbelieve the claim human nature is inherently void and malleable.

A communist Germany, Communist Russia and by extension communist Eastern Europe would not have been free of problems. German communists and Russian communists would have competed for control of the new socialist state, and so would say Polish communists and so on. Under such a power Russia would likely have been developed still, but Germany would be the center of the state.

Absolute most likely is a spreading of communism as a revolutionary ideology in this scenario-to the colonial world, and China. The West(by this point the UK, France and the US) would have faced down unrest themselves, and likely would have coalesced together in anti Bolshevik bloc.

I suspect the US would also have had a strong tendency towards isolationism, "let the British and the Bolsheviks battle for the world, America must guard its own shores". As the ideology of anti communism as a world crusade under Truman would not have had the precedents to exist.

Assuming say France, the Netherlands, Italy and or Spain became communist or communist dominated-I imagine the US would have basically battened down the hatches, and the British would have become some sort of anti communist police state.

Possibly some sort of Anglo-American Union would have occurred(or vastly closer relations).

It would be a very different world, probably a much worse one than the one we have.
 

Scottty

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Assuming say France, the Netherlands, Italy and or Spain became communist or communist dominated-I imagine the US would have basically battened down the hatches, and the British would have become some sort of anti communist police state.

Possibly some sort of Anglo-American Union would have occurred(or vastly closer relations).

It would be a very different world, probably a much worse one than the one we have.
Oceania would be at war with Eurasia.
 

Lord Invictus

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Oceania would be at war with Eurasia.
Quite possibly.

It depends if the revolution spread further. If communism gained ground in our alternate scenario in Latin America-at this point, it would probably be game over for the "free world".

Especially if something the depression came on schedule. Either the revolution would spread even to the US, UK, Canada, Australia and so on-or anti communist police states would have arisen, and probably would have collapsed sooner rather than later.

The red sea would have encompassed the world.
 
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