By that logic you can't ever arrest, imprisoned, fine, or otherwise punishment criminsls, without infringing on thier freedom of movement, property rights, etc.
Gun Political Issues Megathread. (Control for or Against?)
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By that logic you can't ever arrest, imprisoned, fine, or otherwise punishment criminsls, without infringing on thier freedom of movement, property rights, etc.
Doomsought
Well-known member
No, but punishment has to come after the results of a trial, and be specifically those issued as part of the sentencing. Not something tacked on after the fact by a legislator, and certainly not before the fact by an executive.
Yes. "Absolute right" doesn't mean "a right that can only be infringed after due process of law". It mean that the right can never be infringed, for any reason, ever.
No, that's stupid. Courts do not have the discretion to decide what the punishment for a given act of lawbreaking should be. That authority belongs to the people, and thus follows from them to the legislature that is accountable and responsive, rather than the judiciary which is not.
Doomsought
Well-known member
Its not a matter of discression, it is a matter of procedure. Just like you need to be informed of what you are accused of prior to a trial, you also need to have all of your punishments assigned at the end of the trial during the sentencing. If the legislator wants a crime to have a punishment, they have to put that punishment in the right place. If they don't, it is incompetence at best. This is needed both to allow the sentanced a proper opportunity to argue for cruel and unusual punishment and to also prevent the accused from being punished post ex facto.
What exactly gives you the impression that felons are not informed of the legal restrictions that their conviction imposes?
King Arts
Well-known member
I appreciate your consistency, but aren’t you in the army I have to call you out on this you swore to uphold the constitution, how do you interpret the 1st amendment?
You’ve heard the saying the pen is mightier than the sword? Free speech can be much more damaging than some asshole with a gun.
Communism is the antithesis of America.
I am to defend the US from threats foreign and domestic.
Communism is one of those threats
Right, that must be why so many people have been opting to carry an MLA formated essay over a gun, because the former is so much more effective as a self defense tool.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Except that sort of punishment is extremely rare, as far as I'm aware; most people who commit such crimes don't receive it.
Ixian
Well-known member
In fairness, "Shall not infringe" seems pretty darn absolute.
If someone has served their time, they should have all of their rights and privileges returned to them. If they are too dangerous, they should be kept in prison.
That's not possible. For many criminals, particularly violent criminals, the legal system had to grapple with the fact that A) a significant number of them will reoffend, and B) there is a statutory maximum sentence you can impose. There is no "throw them in prison until you're sure they won't do it again" sentence.
Yes there is - it's called "Life without Parole" or just a sentence longer than the average human lifespan.
King Arts
Well-known member
But the 1st amendment says
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
How do you stop communism without stopping people from saying or campaign for it?
If Hitler had his tongue torn out before he joined the Nazi party but you gave him any modern personal weapons not nukes, would he be able to kill more people than if he was able to convince them to make him Fuhrer and go full Nazi?
Then we should purge the courts until they render the right judgment. Think under common law ALL felonies were punishable by death. Why can’t you use judicial interpretation to make all felonies life imprisonment?
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
I am saying that criminals will be able to get guns anyway, so why restrict them from law-abiding citizens?
Not quite. Reserve soldiers don't have a weapon at home, but active duty soldiers in combat roles take their weapon with them while on leave.
How is making felons unable to possess guns hurt law abiding citizens
Doomsought
Well-known member
Once they have done their time, and up until they re-offend, they are law abiding citizens.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Because it won't end up "making felons unable to possess guns" but rather "making only felons able to possess guns". FFS, if you don't obey the law, you can find somebody who has mechanist's tools in garage and if he knows how, he can make you STEN or AK-47 in a matter of hours.
You have to understand that laws are only worth it if 1) they are obeyed by majority and 2) can be enforced. In this case, point 2) is definitely not true.
Ok, so you want the default sentence for assault to be life in prison? Good luck with that.
At this point, I'm pretty sure you're missing the point on purpose.
Yes, in theory you can cause far greater harm with speech. In the same way that in theory you can win the lottery a dozen times in a row. Yeah, it could happen, but in reality it basically never will.
In actual reality, the chances of someone with a previous felony conviction reoffending that there's a 50/50 chance any given inmate will reoffend, which is why they aren't allowed to open weapons that would make them much more dangerous.
Jimmy the crack dealing wife beater is many orders of magnitude more likely to return to selling crack and beating his wife than he is to kick start a fascist dictatorship, which is why we we limit his ability to do the former but not the latter. You know this is the case, so stop wasting my time by pretending otherwise.
Courts don't set minimum/maximum sentences. Legislatures do. Learn how the system works before you start making demands to tear it down and rebuild it.