Five minutes of hate news

[Terthna]

You heard "religious revival" and immediately started talking about "burning people at the stake" like some guy from r/atheism in 2003. Don't think you get to talk about who sounds like a leftist.

All I said was I hope it's not like that; which isn't an illogical fear when you're talking about a major upswing in religious fever, and you consider the historical precedent. Especially when DarthOne comes along and openly advocates burning people at the stake, saying "I think we could use a little of something like that". And don't pretend you weren't doing the same thing, Mr. "We must never do anything remotely effective against crazy leftists". Sure, it may be effective; but if you think it'll end with them you're the one who's crazy.

 

[LordsFire]

All I said was I hope it's not like that; which isn't an illogical fear when you're talking about a major upswing in religious fever, and you consider the historical precedent. Especially when DarthOne comes along and openly advocates burning people at the stake, saying "I think we could use a little of something like that". And don't pretend you weren't doing the same thing, Mr. "We must never do anything remotely effective against crazy leftists". Sure, it may be effective; but if you think it'll end with them you're the one who's crazy.

So, when was the last time someone in America was burned at the stake?

When was the last time someone in America was killed for being a witch or heretic in any way?

When was the last time someone was imprisoned in America for being a witch or a heretic?

How far 'back' to a religious end of things would we have to swing?

These are actual, serious questions that I want serious answers to.

 

[Morphic Tide]

When was the last time someone was imprisoned in America for being a witch or a heretic?

"Sodomy" was only declared unconstitutional in 2003 in the United States, so you have to go back less than 20 years, in fact so shortly that one born that day would not be the age of majority in some states, to run into things criminalized for purely religious reasons. Not quite heresy, but very explicitly criminalizing sins apart from secular concerns of harm.

Sodomy being apart from secular concerns is why it was stricken down, explicitly on the basis that consensual acts in private between adults is not within the domain of the government to regulate. The exceptions to this regarding "harm" have never been solidly proven with homosexuality, with one of the few remaining points of argument being potential causative factors that are still criminalized today.

 

[LordsFire]

"Sodomy" was only declared unconstitutional in 2003 in the United States, so you have to go back less than 20 years, in fact so shortly that one born that day would not be the age of majority in some states, to run into things criminalized for purely religious reasons. Not quite heresy, but very explicitly criminalizing sins apart from secular concerns of harm.

Sodomy being apart from secular concerns is why it was stricken down, explicitly on the basis that consensual acts in private between adults is not within the domain of the government to regulate. The exceptions to this regarding "harm" have never been solidly proven with homosexuality, with one of the few remaining points of argument being potential causative factors that are still criminalized today.

'Sodomy' is not 'heresy' or 'witchcraft.'

I asked a specific question. Answering a different one scores you no points.

 

[Morphic Tide]

I asked a specific question. Answering a different one scores you no points.

It's pointing out that the basis of the problem, making people suffer for violating religious tenants, is not merely within living memory but actually so recent as to have young adults who had reason to fear it. Punishing for "witchcraft" is much the same underlying idea as sodomy, as both are punishments for violating tenants of the religion, the difference is that "witchcraft" essentially doubles down on the superstition.

I already admitted it's not the exact cases you mention, but am pointing out that the actual cause for concern has been present extremely recently. It doesn't matter if it's "witchcraft" or "sodomy", both center on purely religious objections to personal behavior that don't actually entail harm to others.

 

[Arch Dornan]

‘Went from criticizing Rich Boomers to becoming a Rich Boomer’: Influencer from 'OK Boomer' TikTok criticized after showing off her $2 million apartment

An influencer, known as 'Nicole Sanchez' or unofficially as the 'OK boomer girl,' sparked backlash after showing off her $2 million apartment.

www.dailydot.com

Wealth hypocrite gets privilege patrolled.

 

[LordsFire]

It's pointing out that the basis of the problem, making people suffer for violating religious tenants, is not merely within living memory but actually so recent as to have young adults who had reason to fear it. Punishing for "witchcraft" is much the same underlying idea as sodomy, as both are punishments for violating tenants of the religion, the difference is that "witchcraft" essentially doubles down on the superstition.

I already admitted it's not the exact cases you mention, but am pointing out that the actual cause for concern has been present extremely recently. It doesn't matter if it's "witchcraft" or "sodomy", both center on purely religious objections to personal behavior that don't actually entail harm to others.

Homosexuality being treated as immoral is not unique to Christianity. Even then, you're just leading back to the redirected grounds of 'all morality is ultimately based in your religious beliefs.' Christianity simply happens to be exceptionally tolerant of other religious beliefs in its morality. Buddhism is the only other major religion I'm aware of that practices religious tolerance.

Even then, when's the last time someone was imprisoned in America for homosexuality?

When's the last time they were burned at the stake?

I suspect the answer will be something like 'The 1970's' and 'never.'

There are people in prison for violating the secular orthodoxy right now, IE the Capitol Hill rioters.


(Further as a note, while Christianity teaches homosexuality is immorality, it also teaches bodily autonomy. The harshest proscription in Christianity for sexual immorality, is being kicked out of the church. Imprisonment for sodomy was always excessive.)

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Buddhism is the only other major religion I'm aware of that practices religious tolerance.

Not quite. They hate muslims when they have to spend time around them.

 

[LordsFire]

Not quite. They hate muslims when they have to spend time around them.

That has more to do with how Islam has tried to conquer and forcibly convert buddhists pretty much everywhere they go.

 

[LindyAF]

Not quite. They hate muslims when they have to spend time around them.

Isn't that always the way of it?

"Oh no how could those cruel monsters ever be mean to those poor, oppressed X"

*spends literally five minutes around X*

 

[ATP]

He's fired now that it's public. Google diversity head removed over anti-Semitic blog post

Good.Our enemies id fighting each other.We must use that time to made ourself stronger.

 

[bintananth]

That has more to do with how Islam has tried to conquer and forcibly convert buddhists pretty much everywhere they go.

The Quran explicitly prohibits disrespecting other religions. Those who try to forcibly convert others aren't following the teachings of Muhummad.

 

[DarthOne]

The Quran explicitly prohibits disrespecting other religions. Those who try to forcibly convert others aren't following the teachings of Muhummad.

As far as I know, only a fraction of the Islamists called “ Sufi ” respect other religions and people of other religions, because they believe that the other religions and people of other religions should be under consideration of God ( Allah ) and the Islamists have no right to oppose or harm them.


Quran 8:38-39: “Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven… And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”

Quran 2:193: “And fight them until fitna is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.”

Take note that within these 2 verses, the Muslims are commanded to fight until the religion of Allah prevails.

Qur’an 3:83: “Are they seeking a religion other than Allah’s, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?”

Surah 3:83 is very interesting. Notice that Allah has revealed unto us that some have come to believe in Islam, not by mere willingness, but compulsion.

Sahih Muslim 1:33: The Messenger of Allah said: “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat.

 

[bintananth]

Qur’an 3:83: “Are they seeking a religion other than Allah’s, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?”

Surah 3:83 is very interesting. Notice that Allah has revealed unto us that some have come to believe in Islam, not by mere willingness, but compulsion.

My English translation copy of the Quran, given to me by an Imam (I'm Catholic and don't speak or read Arabic) reads as follows:

"Do they desire a way other than God's -knowing that all those in the heavens and earth will submit to His Will, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him they will all be returned?"

It's quite different from your translation.

 

[Terthna]

My English translation copy of the Quran, given to me by an Imam (I'm Catholic and don't speak or read Arabic) reads as follows:

"Do they desire a way other than God's -knowing that all those in the heavens and earth will submit to His Will, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him they will all be returned?"

It's quite different from your translation.

I'm given to understand that they give edited copies to non-believers which omit or sanitize the egregious bits; much like how Scientologists don't talk about Overlord Xenu with outsiders.

 

[bintananth]

I'm given to understand that they give edited copies to non-believers which omit or sanitize the egregious bits; much like how Scientologists don't talk about Overlord Xenu with outsiders.

My understanding, based on the Muslims I've met, is that what could be called a sanitized version is quite close to the original Arabic in meaning.

 

[Bear Ribs]

My English translation copy of the Quran, given to me by an Imam (I'm Catholic and don't speak or read Arabic) reads as follows:

"Do they desire a way other than God's -knowing that all those in the heavens and earth will submit to His Will, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him they will all be returned?"

It's quite different from your translation.

The significant part of the verse is "submit to His Will, willingly or unwillingly" so your translation still has the key bit where people are being forced into it, the difference isn't meaningful in the context of Terthna's point.

But yeah, sanitized Qurans that remove or edit the more outrageous statements are definitely a common thing.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

The significant part of the verse is "submit to His Will, willingly or unwillingly" so your translation still has the key bit where people are being forced into it, the difference isn't meaningful in the context of Terthna's point.

But yeah, sanitized Qurans that remove or edit the more outrageous statements are definitely a common thing.

Yeah, that has even its own term in their religion: Taqiya, the freedom to lie under oath to non-believers if they have to cover for one of their own.

 

[bintananth]

Yeah, that has even its own term in their religion: Taqiya, the freedom to lie under oath to non-believers if they have to cover for one of their own.

Which is not much different from the saying "snitches get stiches".

 

[LordsFire]

The Quran explicitly prohibits disrespecting other religions. Those who try to forcibly convert others aren't following the teachings of Muhummad.

What Muhammed preached when he was first in Medina, and needed the support of the Jews there, and what he preached later, after he'd become a powerful warlord, were very different things.

Also, the preeminent doctrine in Islam about which is correct, is that the later teachings supercede the earlier ones. Meaning the bloody war ones trump the earlier ones about 'respecting the other peoples of the holy book.'