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Finland's and Sweden's NATO accession following thread.
- Thread starter Tyzuris
- Start date
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
Translation: Gotta do what you gotta do in the Middle East
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
Sure but now that the sleepers have been jolted awake and are actually getting more serious about Europe's defense again, why do you consider the next few years a likely time for NATO to collapse when it failed to do so before? Or am I misreading your talk of wells being poisoned? I'd think the coming decade would be something of a renaissance for NATO, unless it runs into very strong headwinds—if the EU collapsed, for example, there would certainly be repercussions in NATO and, without considering the hypothetical at length, I couldn't say with confidence whether it would come out of that stronger or weaker.
A dead cat bounce is really something.
Russia is the thing holding nato together, not deeper bonds, when Putin dies its likely the place falls apart and once that happens the US is going to want to bounce and deal with internal isssues and much of the rest of nato has internal fuckery too.
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
NATO is NOT going to implode.
This isolationist bullshit needs to be banned!
Either the United States leads the world in the 21st Century or the enemies (China, Russia, Venezuela, Iran, etc) do
Aren't you forgetting a certain massive rising power in Asia?
NATO isn't.
Japan to join NATO summit for first time as China challenge looms
NATO has invited to the gathering the leaders of Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand, which the Brussels-based organization views as its Asia-Pacific partner countries.
www.japantimes.co.jp
Japan joining would be a massive counterweight against China. ESPECIALLY, sine China has declared their Nuclear strike principle where Japan is concerned.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
Even in the worst case for Russia, it's not going to just disappear in a puff of smoke. If your expectations for NATO collapse are based on NATO lacking any external issues to hold it together, I think your expectations of Afro-Eurasian tranquility are wrong.
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
Japan joining NATO makes sense after the horrific assassination of former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on July 8thAren't you forgetting a certain massive rising power in Asia?
NATO isn't.
Japan to join NATO summit for first time as China challenge looms
NATO has invited to the gathering the leaders of Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand, which the Brussels-based organization views as its Asia-Pacific partner countries.
It isn't eligible, unfortunately.
Until NATO says it's elligible.
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
We're gonna find out soon enough
Morphic Tide
Well-known member
More a matter of "until NATO makes it eligible", since the missing qualifiers are near-exclusively Russia and China being assholes about territorial claims.
Why exactly should we fight China over a bunch of islands in the South China Sea, anyway? Taiwan I can understand since they built a decent, functioning, prosperous democracy, but why the South China Sea islands?
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This is a map of China's claims, if they actually got everything they claimed everything in the red would be their exlusive economic zone. That means all of those islands china from the spratly islands they could create air and missle bases that could threaten vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia and the Philipines, their claims allow them to have a missle base that threatens the philitpine capitial directly.
This also gives them most control over a strategic trade choke point used by multiple countries which is why the US has told them to get fucked.
Now another reasion you will notice that the area they are claiming to the south has some of the largest provable oil reserves in the region. If their claims win all of that oil goes to china if they fail then the oil goes to Malasia and Brunai. From an economic, miltary and resource level pushing your claims as far as possible makes sense.
The problem is by doing this China pisses off mutliple countries who now all have a reason to unite against china with outside forces to knock them down a peg.
This is a map of China's claims, if they actually got everything they claimed everything in the red would be their exlusive economic zone. That means all of those islands china from the spratly islands they could create air and missle bases that could threaten vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia and the Philipines, their claims allow them to have a missle base that threatens the philitpine capitial directly.
This also gives them most control over a strategic trade choke point used by multiple countries which is why the US has told them to get fucked.
Now another reasion you will notice that the area they are claiming to the south has some of the largest provable oil reserves in the region. If their claims win all of that oil goes to china if they fail then the oil goes to Malasia and Brunai. From an economic, miltary and resource level pushing your claims as far as possible makes sense.
The problem is by doing this China pisses off mutliple countries who now all have a reason to unite against china with outside forces to knock them down a peg.
That makes sense; thank you. Also, I find it ironic that Russia is complaining about allegedly "predatory" NATO expansion into its backyard while having no problem with predatory Chinese expansion into other countries' backyards. Hypocrisy much?
Because they are strategic holdouts for the fight for Taiwan.
Back in the old days that wasn't called hypocrisy, only self-interest. My ally expands influence? Good. My enemy expands influence? Bad. The only difference is that in some parts of the West national self-interest is something dirty that isn't supposed to be admitted, and everyone else is eager to exploit such silly ideas for own benefit.
That's the thing, though--from the West's self-interest, it makes perfect sense to support Ukraine and to aim to expand the Western sphere of influence to include Ukraine:
Contra Hanania on Russia/Ukraine
There is both a moral and practical case for helping Ukraine
pontifex.substack.com
That's the thing, though--from the West's self-interest, it makes perfect sense to support Ukraine and to aim to expand the Western sphere of influence to include Ukraine:
Contra Hanania on Russia/Ukraine
There is both a moral and practical case for helping Ukraine
America and Russia got along just fine before the russian revolution, there were disagreements but the two got on all right.
But Lenin, Stalin and that entire lot were massive cunts and a lot of the problems the west has today is because of communism and its aftermath. This is before you get into the fact that they stole the secret of nuclear weapons from us and then pointed said nukes at us non stop for 70 fucking years.
Even after the cold war they were still pointing their nukes primarly at the US and so it makes sense for the west to want that to start. And breaking them with a proxy war, ruining their economy and sending them into a warlord era? Its not nice but it does take out a major threat to our civilization.
Back then USA was not one of the West's leading powers. UK and France were, and Russian Empire was not getting along with them nicely.