Final Fantasy

[Nikkolas]

So JRPGs have been my favorite type of video game for most of my life at this point. I played FFVII at my cousin's when I was around 10 or something but I didn't understand it. I was used to Mario or Goldeneye and all these menus and stuff? Didn't get it at all. Later on though, I played it when I was in Freshman year at high school and it sucked me n and made me a lifelong fan of the series.

Well, kind of. I believe firmly that turn-based is the best type of RPG combat (and if you want to get on me about how ATB isn't really turn-based, we can deal with that. I'll just point to the Wait Mode, however) and I am forced to conclude turn-based is pretty much dead for the mainline series at this point.. So I am a fan but I don't see myself having any interest in any future FF titles until hopefully the zeitgeist swings back in the other direction, away from Action RPG's.

Anyway, Final Fantasy X is far and away my favorite FF game. It's not perfect - the final dungeon is ass and all its side content is garbage. But these are such minor flaws in an otherwise startlingly good package. It is a 10/10 game in Gameplay, Story, Characters, Atmosphere, Music...so what it gets a a few low marks in unimportant categories like Side Quests.

Also, just so this post has a bit more meat to it than my insignificant claims and opinions, there was a huge survey of FF fans in Japan from earlier this year. If you never saw it, it's pretty interesting.

Final Fantasy: NHK Fan Poll Results Revealed

NHK organized a Final Fantasy series fan poll ranking the games, characters, bosses, summons, music, and published the results via a TV show.

www.dualshockers.com

I particularly appreciate the demographic breakdown for the Top 10 so we can see what age groups and genders like which FF game.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I really liked the first 10-15 hours of FFX, namely the stretch between when Tidus washed up on the beach and met Wakka, up until the Ice Temple. It felt like you were going on a journey with a colorful cast of characters, learning about the world, passing through villages, hearing about Lord Braska's/Auron's/Jecht's journey, meeting all of the NPCs on the Mi'hen Highroad, etc. I think once I reached the thundering plains/Macalania woods, the game started stalling out for me, because we weren't meeting NPCs like on the highroad or passing through villages, and the journey sorta stops and the Seymour plot took over and I lost interest and dropped it. I've tried playing through FFX three times, and all three times I stalled out at the Ice Temple.

I also liked the Pacific setting of FFX. The clothes for most of the characters and NPCs were dumb, though.

One thing I really loved about FFX was how the monster design encouraged you to use every character. Flying enemies are out of reach for the melee characters (there is a hit chance), so they can only be hit by magic or by Wakka's blitzball. Agile enemies like wolves and lizards will dodge the attacks of slower moving characters (again, not always but a high miss chance), so you need to use a fast character like Tidus. Magical enemies have high defense, so you want to bring out Lulu to nuke them with elemental magic. Due to the sphere grid, it is possible to later stack up any character's accuracy or magic stat enough so that they can reliably kill any monster. Tidus' sword will bounce off armored enemies, but Auron can shatter the armor, allowing everyone else to attack. Rikku was super effective against Machina enemies. Combined with the convenience of switching party members, you are incentivized to use every character in the party, rather than just having a "main" team.

IDEA: What if enemy types were combined? What if you had to defeat the types of protection in sequence? What if the armor reflected magic, so you couldn't just use Yuna/Lulu? It's a shame that CTB was dropped and they never really expanded upon this. The Trails series carried on and innovated upon FFX's CTB system, reaching it's zenith with the Trails of Cold Steel games, but I wish that they had borrowed that "flying monsters can only be hit by ranged weapons" thing and tried out different things with it. Sadly, it looks like we will never get to see this, because Hajimari will be the final turn based Kiseki game. It seems the next one is going to be more action based (either straight up action, or real time with pause, like a CRPG).

 

[Husky_Khan]

Have any of you guys played any of the earlier Final Fantasy games? The classic ones where you had those bit graphic characters lined up on either side of the map and the cool blue drop down menus selecting what action you should undertake?

Final Fantasy IV is probably one of my favorite of the bunch, especially since I never really got into any of the post-FFVII games. It's not that I'm some Hironobu Sakaguchi fangirl or anything, it just worked out that way I swear. I can't remember much of the game because I played a port that was so long ago and I wasn't old enough I think to understand everything (plus I only got a fraction into the game lol).

Another game that I loved plot wise, and I'm amazed never got much press was Final Fantasy: Tactics which combined the fantasy trappings of a classic Final Fantasy game with an even more inspired and complicated and intricately woven political scene just as complex as HBO's Game of Thrones. Alas another game I was too young and too dumb to fully appreciate.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Not a fan of the pre PS1 era games honestly.

The first 3 FFs were about gameplay, not story. There was hardly any story in them, and nothing to write home about. 4-6 have an emphasis on story, but again nothing really standout in my opinion. They have moments of greatness, like Cecil walking into a town he just conquered and all of the NPCs hate his guts, but overall I don't really think that they're very memorable.

As for Tactics, I like the political intrigue and the scheming of Matsuno's games, but I don't feel attached to the characters in his games. They feel... dry. I guess it's because there is an overall lack of humour, of bonding moments like in the FFs that Kitase infused into the series starting with FFV. Everyone in Matsuno's games is overall super serious. XII was the worst in that regard, where I wish I could have traded the party members out for Larsa and Al Cid. And Dr. Cid.

I loved Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2. Yeah yeah it doesn't have the Matsuno plot, but I thought that the setting was super comfy and the characters were fun. And the battle system was great, and I loved the artwork of the different jobs and races.

 

[Terthna]

I still have a soft spot for the first game; it was a buggy mess in retrospect, but I keep going back to it every couple of years or so. Final Fantasy IV is also my favorite as well (though V is a close second); I remember playing through it multiple times as a kid. I never really felt that VI was as good as its fans insisted; it wasn't a bad game by any means, but the heavy emphasis on story made the World of Ruin section feel like a disjointed mess, and I did not care for how magic worked in gameplay.

Honestly, I feel that the series lost something in the switch to 3D; something that it was already starting to lose with Final Fantasy VI. I liked VII well enough, and IX was probably the best post 16-bit entry; but VIII was downright boring, and X left a bad taste in my mouth. The last main series entry I actually played was XII, and while I liked that one better than many did, I never felt motivated to finish it. I never even tried XIII, due to its bad reputation, and XV seems like it solidified a trend for the franchise away from being jRPGs, and towards being action RPGs.

 

[JasonSanjo]

Of the 2D games, Final Fantasy V is my favorite, because of the feeling of grand, fantastic adventure I always got from it. Final Fantasy IV and VI probably share second place, being very different games in my opinion.

Of the 3D games, my favorite is Final Fantasy VII, with IX coming in close second, as it's the most (in my opinion) "Final Fantasy" of the post-SNES era. X was alright, though it had plenty of flaws, and I always found myself getting bored with the story sometime around the Thunder Plains and onward. I tried to get into XII but I couldn't get myself to finish it; the story was so-so at best, and the characters incredibly bland and annoying (with some exceptions). Basically, it had all the flaws of X with none of the upsides, which was a real shame as it was set in the same world as Final Fantasy Tactics, which I loved.

I haven't played a mainline Final Fantasy game after XII that wasn't a remaster or remake. I did check out XIII and XV via let's plays on Youtube, but found myself quickly losing interest with both due to the over-emphasis on special effects and long-winded dialogue over actual (well-written) story and feeling.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I haven't played a mainline Final Fantasy game after XII that wasn't a remaster or remake. I did check out XIII and XV via let's plays on Youtube, but found myself quickly losing interest with both due to the over-emphasis on special effects and long-winded dialogue over actual (well-written) story and feeling.

I would recommend checking out FFXIV (it's more of an epic JRPG than an MMO), as it is tied with IX as my favorite FF game. That said, I know it is a tough sell. The story is 200 hours long (100 hours of cutscenes, 100 hours of gameplay), and the first story arc, ARR, does not give off good first impressions (mediocre English voice acting, story isn't that interesting, kinda feels slow at first).

Personally, once I reached patch 2.3, I was starting to get pretty invested in the story. Also the English voice acting improves tremendously with the first expansion, Heavensward, which is also where the story really picks up the pace, and it only gets better as it goes on. Shadowbringers is legit amazing.

The free trial includes the base game (ARR) and Heavensward, so don't pay yet. Play through that. Once you finish HW, go ahead and buy the complete edition, which includes the other two expansions, and gives you 30 days free subscription. You can pretty easily beat the rest of the story within 30 days.

Naoki Yoshida, the director of XIV, has called out Square over the years for chasing graphics and spectacle at the expense of good storytelling and good gameplay. The team that made XIV is making XVI, so I'm hopeful for XVI.

Besides Final Fantasy, the only other good JRPG series right now is Trails.

 

[JasonSanjo]

I would recommend checking out FFXIV (it's more of an epic JRPG than an MMO), as it is tied with IX as my favorite FF game. That said, I know it is a tough sell. The story is 200 hours long (100 hours of cutscenes, 100 hours of gameplay), and the first story arc, ARR, does not give off good first impressions (mediocre English voice acting, story isn't that interesting, kinda feels slow at first).

Personally, once I reached patch 2.3, I was starting to get pretty invested in the story. Also the English voice acting improves tremendously with the first expansion, Heavensward, which is also where the story really picks up the pace, and it only gets better as it goes on. Shadowbringers is legit amazing.

The free trial includes the base game (ARR) and Heavensward, so don't pay yet. Play through that. Once you finish HW, go ahead and buy the complete edition, which includes the other two expansions, and gives you 30 days free subscription. You can pretty easily beat the rest of the story within 30 days.

Naoki Yoshida, the director of XIV, has called out Square over the years for chasing graphics and spectacle at the expense of good storytelling and good gameplay. The team that made XIV is making XVI, so I'm hopeful for XVI.

Besides Final Fantasy, the only other good JRPG series right now is Trails.

Well, I've never been much of an MMO guy... perhaps because when MMOs first started getting popular I had shit Internet connection and couldn't play anything online, a situation that continued for years and years... and by the time I had better Internet connection I had already built up resistance to it, basically. I might check out XIV at some point when I have more free time, though.

Other good JRPGs include some of the Breath of Fire games, the Dragon Quest games (if you don't mind the more cartoony visuals and gags), the masterpiece that is Chrono Trigger, Suikoden (and hopefully the upcoming spiritual successor Eiyuden Chronicles)...

(Is it obvious I played a lot during the SNES and PS1 eras?)

 

[Terthna]

Naoki Yoshida, the director of XIV, has called out Square over the years for chasing graphics and spectacle at the expense of good storytelling and good gameplay. The team that made XIV is making XVI, so I'm hopeful for XVI.

It's still an action RPG, which in my mind makes it not really Final Fantasy anymore. It could be amazing, don't get me wrong; but I think it's a good idea to just take XV, and consider every entry from that point on as part of a completely different franchise.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Pretty scummy that the Yuffie episode is exclusive to the PS5 rerelease of the FFVII Remake, and that PS4 owners apparently can't get that content.

 

[Navarro]

It's still an action RPG, which in my mind makes it not really Final Fantasy anymore. It could be amazing, don't get me wrong; but I think it's a good idea to just take XV, and consider every entry from that point on as part of a completely different franchise.

It's the result of stuff bleeding back into FF from Square's KH action-RPG series IMO.

 

[Terthna]

It's the result of stuff bleeding back into FF from Square's KH action-RPG series IMO.

I blame Nomura; the man's influence over today's SquareEnix cannot be understated.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I blame Nomura; the man's influence over today's SquareEnix cannot be understated.

The only mainline FFs with action combat is Lightning Returns (which Nomura had no hand in), and XV, which started out as a spinoff, which was then rebranded as a mainline game because Square had nothing else in the works (partly because Square was preoccupied with rectifying the disaster that was FFXIV 1.0), and Square wanted to recoup their investment in the Versus XIII project after it had spent a decade in development hell.

I don't think Nomura is responsible for FFXVI being action based. The last game that Hiroshi Takai (FF16 director) directed was The Last Remnant, which was turn based. Takai also spent his formative years at Square working on the Saga games, which were also turn based. And Yoshida (who is now on the board of directors) also has a respect for the classics. I think if Takai and Yoshida wanted to, FF16 could have been turn based. I could be wrong; it could be action based because the other suits want to chase after mass appeal, but I'm inclined to think that's not the case here.

 

[Terthna]

The only mainline FFs with action combat is Lightning Returns (which Nomura had no hand in), and XV, which started out as a spinoff, which was then rebranded as a mainline game because Square had nothing else in the works (partly because Square was preoccupied with rectifying the disaster that was FFXIV 1.0), and Square wanted to recoup their investment in the Versus XIII project after it had spent a decade in development hell.

I don't think Nomura is responsible for FFXVI being action based. The last game that Hiroshi Takai (FF16 director) directed was The Last Remnant, which was turn based. Takai also spent his formative years at Square working on the Saga games, which were also turn based. And Yoshida (who is now on the board of directors) also has a respect for the classics. I think if Takai and Yoshida wanted to, FF16 could have been turn based. I could be wrong; it could be action based because the other suits want to chase after mass appeal, but I'm inclined to think that's not the case here.

Perhaps not directly, but the fact that XV was a financial success probably has a lot to do with why XVI is going to ape its gameplay mechanics.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Perhaps not directly, but the fact that XV was a financial success probably has a lot to do with why XVI is going to ape its gameplay mechanics.

I think turn based games can still be just as profitable. I think Persona 5's success is proof of that (3 million sales worldwide for the original release, 1.4 million copies sold within a year for the special edition release). The Persona series had virtually no mainstream presence until SEGA actually bothered trying to really market the series in the West starting with P5.

Unlike Persona, Final Fantasy is a firmly established brand in the mainstream. If a relative newcomer can sell million for a turn based game, Final Fantasy absolutely can, and more. They have the brand name and the marketing machine to do it.

The FF7 Remake (action based) has been out for almost a year now, and it hasn't sold as well as FFXIII (turn based) or FFXV (action based), so I think going back to turn based wouldn't actually matter much.

EDIT: Just remembered Pokemon, the main games of which still sells tens of millions of copies, and is still turn based. And the new Yakuza game, which went from action to turn based. I think so long as it has strong marketing/brand recognition, a game will sell well regardless of whether it's action or turn based.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

My first real exposure to FF was Final Fantasy 12. Now I know what some are probably thinking: "Poor guy, had such a bad impression of Final Fantasy with this heap of garbage..." But it will surprise them to learn that I actually enjoyed it. Before FF12, I had the GBA remakes of 1 and 2, and while ok, I just couldn't see the hype in them. FF12 on the other hand was fun to me, and I still intend to get the PS4 remake to actually try and finish the game rather than wander off and do whatever.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

My first real exposure to FF was Final Fantasy 12. Now I know what some are probably thinking: "Poor guy, had such a bad impression of Final Fantasy with this heap of garbage..." But it will surprise them to learn that I actually enjoyed it. Before FF12, I had the GBA remakes of 1 and 2, and while ok, I just couldn't see the hype in them. FF12 on the other hand was fun to me, and I still intend to get the PS4 remake to actually try and finish the game rather than wander off and do whatever.

FFXII looked great. It pushed the PS2 hardware to its limits (so much so that they had to reduce the render resolution in order to keep a decent framerate). The original painterly textures still hold up today (especially notable if you use an emulator and render at a higher resolution). The cutscene and voice direction was top notch.

My only real problem with FFXII is the pacing and the lack of humor.

The game is oddly paced, where you can have long stretches where you are travelling through zones and dungeons to the next story destination and there isn't really any plot happening and you don't really pass through any towns (namely, the long walk to the tomb, the long walk to the mountain, and then the long walk to the Archadia).

The game is also... dry. Yes it's supposed to be serious and dramatic, but you can have such a story and still have moments of levity and humor. Kitase really made the Final Fantasy games (5 through 10) feel... "alive", by infusing them with humor. Matsuno's games don't really have humor, and I think that is part of the reason why I'm not really invested in his main characters/parties/playable characters. There aren't really any bonding moments that endear you to them. If I were to assemble a dream team of JRPG characters, the only playable Matsuno characters I'd invite would be Vyce from Tactics Ogre (Law route. Chaos route Vyce is a completely different character), and Ramza from the Return to Ivalice event in FFXIV. I felt that his side characters were much more lively and interesting, like (from FFXII) Al Cid, or Larsa, or Dr. Cid. Or (from Tactics Ogre) Ganpp.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Art by Akihiko Yoshida

Digital 2021 Fanfest for FFXIV began a few hours ago.

• Endwalker will conclude the FFXIV story.
• Endwalker launches November 19th.
• An entirely brand new storyline will begin in the patch content. (It has been hinted that you will not need to have completed the first storyline to start the second one, but this isn't explicitly confirmed).
• New jobs are Sage (wields remote drones/gundam funnels) and Reaper (wields a scythe, calls upon the power of the Void).
• New major city is Old Sharlayan. New minor city is Radz-at-Han.
• 5 zones unveiled: Thavnair, Labyrinthos (underground Sharlayan preserve), Mare Lamentorum (Amaurotine base on the moon), Garlemald, and an unnamed zone of psychedelic floating islands.
• Male Viera are being added. Female Hrothgar will come later.
• An "Island Sanctuary" will be added in the patch content, will have Harvest Moon-esque gameplay. You can do it as any job.
• Australian data center is being added.
• Data center travel is being added, so you can play with people on other data centers (ie, Americans playing with Europeans).

With FF14 and FF16 being developed by the same team, and with Endwalker being confirmed for Fall 2021, this means it is unlikely FF16 will release this year. Makes me wonder how they will space out FF7R part 2 and FF16 in 2022.

Full cinematic trailer:

 

[Vargas Fan]

I only ever played the Final Fantasy games from VII. I felt that VIII might have had the better story but the system seemed a bit more clunky, and the last I played was XIII which I stopped after a few hours due to how linear and uninteresting it was.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I only ever played the Final Fantasy games from VII. I felt that VIII might have had the better story but the system seemed a bit more clunky, and the last I played was XIII which I stopped after a few hours due to how linear and uninteresting it was.

If you play a FF game older than 7, I'd recommend either IV or V. FF4 has a tight story with great characters. I'd recommend playing the PSP or the SNES version if you can. FF5 also has fun characters but the story is more silly and fun. I'd recommend playing the original SNES version if you can.

Yeah, the linearity of FF13 is disappointing. The devs should have known that people who play Final Fantasy games were expecting to be able to explore the world and towns and talk to NPCs, and should have structured their game to accomodate that.