Dungeons & Dragons Dragonlance... isn't dead?

[Bear Ribs]

As far as I can tell, Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil are, according to Weis and Hickman's setting, the ideal alignments; the more people that are Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil, the more the balance of "good" and "evil" has been shifted too far in one direction.

Huh, that makes a lot of sense and I'd never seen it that way before. It would explain why they regard Kender as hero characters when most players and DMs I've played with see Kender as a walking advertisement for the benefits of player-on-player violence.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The is a big difference, in 2e you don't have as big of an investment in your character as in 3e. Character creation is much simpler in 2e, but THACO was a mistake, and the actual game-play rules were all over the pace. 5e is actually a great compromise between 3e and 2e. I'd love for them to come out with a 2e box sets and modules translated over to 5e rules.

I usually just do napkin math to convert 2e monster stats to 5e. Like I subtract 2e THACO from 20 and maybe add one to get a 5e 'to hit/attack' stat. Ex. a THACO of 17 could be +3/4 to hit. And with Armor Class its something similar. For Armor Class I subtract the 2e number from ten and then add ten. So a 2e Armor Class of 2 would be 10-2=8... then 8+10 = 18 for some sort of plate mail armored foe. And if the 2e AC is like '-2' then it'd be 10+2=12...then 12+10=22 for a 5e Armor Class. Hit Dice and Movement Speed and Damage are kinda left the same...but I usually halve the experence points. So a 65xp 2e monster would be worth 25 or 50 if your strict and a 1400xp 2e monster would be a CR 3 700XP monster.

There's an easyish method for 3e monsters I scribble out as well.... but that 4th edition stuff... no idea. Plus I'm sure there's conversion tables out there as well but I can't be arsed. I wanna homebrew my conversions even if I'm doing something terribly wrong.

As for ADnD I've only played 2nd Edition and 5th Edition and despite being way simpler, 5th Edition does feel quite fantastic to me even if I had to crack open old 2e soucebooks to get ideas for basic stuff like mounted cavalry charges and dueling.

 

[gral]

I never really got the hate for THACO; it always made perfect sense to me.

I never got the hate for THAC0 because it's the same shit as "base attack bonus" expressed in a different form. For a game of nerds, you would expect people to realize there isn't any functional difference as THAC0 17 and a base attack bonus of +3, considering the 2nd Edition and the 3rd edition game mechanics.

 

[Terthna]

I never got the hate for THAC0 because it's the same shit as "base attack bonus" expressed in a different form. For a game of nerds, you would expect people to realize there isn't any functional difference as THAC0 17 and a base attack bonus of +3, considering the 2nd Edition and the 3rd edition game mechanics.

A lot of people are just more interested in the "role playing" aspect of D&D, and not the "game"; that's probably why 5th is more simplistic than what came before, so it would better appeal to the former group. I think the shift in focus happened around the same time the books started defaulting to using female pronouns.

 

[gral]

A lot of people are just more interested in the "role playing" aspect of D&D, and not the "game"

That's true, but OTOH, that wasn't a rarely used rule like, for example, morale checks in AD&D 2nd Edition, but one of the most basic ones of the game. I guess not many look beyond the surface, and by 'surface', I mean the literal text.

Ah, I forgot to add something in my previous answer. About people not being as invested in 2nd Edition characters as in 3rd Edition ones: I disagree. You had to be invested in 2nd Edition characters, because it was so much easier to die - you had to think about the way you played. 'Ah, but that is game mechanics, not role-playing!', people might say. I'd say those things aren't separate. You play the character you have in your sheet, and your stats should influence the way you role-play; stats are things that help flesh out your character's basic concept, beyond being used in number-crunching.

 

[Allanon]

The trouble between the "Dragonlance" authors and WotC is a curious case of wokism consuming itself.

Reading about this in Reddit the amount of SJW whining about how politically incorrect it is (I suspect the authors' "outdated" views about good vs. evil have much to do with it) really made me wonder about the modern world, but what is interesting is that Margaret Weiss was the first and is perhaps still the only well-known female author in that particular genre. Apparently that doesn't matter nowadays if the author isn't on the "right side of history."

If WotC wanted to abandon the series so Penguin couldn't publish the new books they should have just paid the authors what was in the contract, let them go, and move on already. But that wasn't going to happen.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I remember getting a discount coupon a few months ago for a Bookseller and thinking while I was there, of purchasing Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickmans new Dragonlance novel that was released. I wasn't the biggest reader of Dragonlance personally but I thought maybe it'd be nice to dive into reading it and whatnot. Then I paused and thought, do I really want to buy anymore licensed Wizards of the Coast stuff even if it is Dragonlance and decided on purchasing something else.

Not a big issue or deal, but it did get me thinking on things.

I'm not planning on purchasing any new WOTC source books or supplements or anything in the future or using stuff like DnD Beyond etc (which I never used anyways) but I still might make an exception for a Dragonlance novel if I was really interested in buying it (though like I said earlier, I'm not a real big fan of Dragonlance in the first place).

 

[Buba]

Margaret Weiss was the first and is perhaps still the only well-known female author in that particular genre.

By genre do you mean the trash written for a specific RPG setting, in this case Dragonlance, or fantasy in general?
Le Guin is good, Mercedes Lackey is not so bad (and woke!), then there was another solid journeywoman whose name I forgot ... Norna? Normana? .. she had a setting with witches and mysogenic Falconers(?) Hawkers (?) ...

 

[Husky_Khan]

By genre do you mean the trash written for a specific RPG setting, or fantasy in general?

Have you ever read any Margaret Weis/Tracy Hickman stuff or just sounding off on the genre for reasons?

I haven't read any of her work myself but considering they're like older than Gandalf but still have a beloved readership I'm assuming they have some quality writing that keeps readers interested in their work.

 

[Buba]

Have you ever read any Margaret Weis/Tracy Hickman stuff

I read the three or four first Krynn books. The first was novel to me - and amusing as I could see the dice rolls, this being the novelisation of their campaign. I got bored by the third and did not read through the fourth.

Weis&Hickman, Salvatore, Yeovil and other such hacks sell because their drivel is set in settings beloved by the readers.
As a Warhammer afficionado I've personally read more Gotrek novels than I should ... definitely more than merited by their quality.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I read the three or four first Krynn books. The first was novel to me - and amusing as I could see the dice rolls, this being the novelisation of their campaign. I got bored by the third and did not read through the fourth.

Weis&Hickman, Salvatore, Yeovil and other such hacks sell because their drivel is set in settings beloved by the readers.
As a Warhammer afficionado I've personally read more Gotrek novels than I should ... definitely more than merited by their quality.

Well I think it's kind of unfair. I had a "Drizzt" phase when it came to reading fantasy novels. Lots of people did. They're entertaining books and I wouldn't discard them as trash. Sure I stopped reading Drizzt books but losing interest in stuff is normal. Maybe it's oriented towards new readers or whatever which is fine. I don't think it has lowered the bar of fantasy novels in general (certainly not compared to other things in the fantasy space atm) in the past.

With that said, your commentary does weigh in on me not spending money on new Dragonlance novels, at least on myself.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Weis&Hickman, Salvatore, Yeovil and other such hacks sell because their drivel is set in settings beloved by the readers.

I thought that the Dragonlance books worked despite their simplistic and cliched nature because the characters were different from each other and had conflict with each other. There was character drama I was invested in.

I remember reading the first Icewind Dale novel and being terribly bored, though.

 

[Buba]

Ha! It finally came back to me! Memory for teh win! Woot!Woot!
Re female writers - another popular and quite good authoress - Andre Norton.

 

[ATP]

Ha! It finally came back to me! Memory for teh win! Woot!Woot!
Re female writers - another popular and quite good authoress - Andre Norton.

At least first books of series.In Witch world cases,2 first was quiye good,and all next worst and worst.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Grandma Margaret is getting spicy.





Both promoting and shitting on Hasbro Dragonlance simultaneously.

Also might have to check the above out...

Furthermore...