No, you won't "live on". You'll be dead. Quite literally I bet you don't even know the names of your great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather. Any of them. They're all pushing up daisies, and so will you. Will you be able to perceive that your line has continued? Can you actually explain why this matters?
Do you feel having kids is important and is it something that you desire for yourself?
- Thread starter mandragon
- Start date
i don't even know the names of my biological grand parents...
but that is not the point i am making. names mean nothing. however the blood i have flowing through my veins is that of my ancestors. i am who i am...because of that blood. how i think, how i move, how i compete, and how i live...is due to that blood. while i will never meet any of them...i have ancestors going back hundreds of years...thousands of years...who were basically me...and through having children i will have descendants who going forward...will be basically me and think, move, compete, and live like me at the most primal level
that matters
You are not your ancestors. They are dead. Six feet under. And your descendants will not be you. In 100 years you will be dead, too. None of this will make any difference to you once you're dead. None of it matters.
Poe
Well-known member
This cringe mindset is the source of most of the wests current problems. It's also a big [citation needed], as you have no idea what the afterlife holds. You also miss the point I think, I plan to fuck the root of a great nation into my wife and regardless of if I'm around to see my grandchildren I'll be a lot happier than your blackpilled ass in the meantime. One of the signs of a wise man is caring about the state of things long after they're dead and gone, you've got a lot to learn I fear.
I actually do have an idea of what the afterlife holds, and it's exactly because of it that I said this idea of "continuing your line" is a worldly and selfish motivation. If you have no idea what the afterlife holds, or if indeed you have no real reason to think there even is an "afterlife", you have no actual reason to think anything matters after your death. And if the thought of continuing your line just makes you happy in the present, well, refer back to what I said about selfish motivation.
If it's wise to care about the state of things when you're dead and gone - can you give a reason why? What difference does it make to you, or me, or anyone else what the world is like in 200 years when we're all dead and gone? Do you think the state of the world now matters to anyone who was alive in 1823?
I'm hardly "blackpilled". I'm not against having children, I said that raising children is one of the highest callings a person can have. And I want children myself. I'm just critical of the motivation to have children in order to "continue your line".
Stargazer, you are underestimating just how similar offspring are to their parents, grand parents, great grand parents, etc. in every single way. i would go as far as to say that i am my parents. that is how much this matters, and who you as a man choose to impregnate and what her genetics are like...determines if your sons and daughters will be genetically superior, inferior, comparable or at least better or lesser adapted to the times...compared to yourself.
this is as serious as it gets and yes, this is about "continuing your line" that has existed since the beginning of time.
@Poe: i've been thinking about our brief back and forth the other day and am, sooner or later going to give an actual relationship a try. i reckon the key to it is to be the kind of man that girls swoon over and, even if they know they probably can't, still dream of having all to themselves...but then not letting being in a relationship change me into a different person than the man that the girl was swooning over to begin with...to be honest that was probably always an irrational fear of mine given who i am...but i've seen it happen to other people and i will never be one of those guys that says "it can't happen to me"...
in any case, i'm thinking about it now. it's interesting as, despite coming from a religious family, my outlook on life was so simple as a kid and teen. that, as a male, you compete. you fight for what you want. you go forward. that was it. i always had a sense of honor and fair competition and was never a bully - in fact the opposite, high level competion always brought out the best in me - ...but the mindset was simple. other males were just associates at best, enemies at worse, and girls were just fuck toys to me.
when i became an adult i kept that mind set for a while, but eventually changed it a little bit as i became more in tune with the sufferings of others. and i think it was for the better...
i'd reckon just combining my old ways, with the greater sense of empathy i have devloped, would make for a great man for a girl and a great father
be the man that the girls were swooning over, and stay that way when you are in a relationship with one. if you are that guy, be sure to stay that guy. girls dream about having that guy all for themselves...so long as he stays that guy when she has him to herself
the bigger problem is me not getting bored of the girl and having to turn down all the other girls i could be getting with...but if children are involved - which they would be or i wouldn't be bothering to begin with - i could make it work
golly i'm starting to think all the good looking, athletic deadbeats with a baker's dozen baby mamas have the right idea making the tax payer foot the bill...because at the end of the day and one hundred years from now....one thousand years from now...those "deadbeats" will have descendants that will continue their bloodline...can't say the same about most of the cucks footing the bill and paying for other mens' children
this is as serious as it gets and yes, this is about "continuing your line" that has existed since the beginning of time.
@Poe: i've been thinking about our brief back and forth the other day and am, sooner or later going to give an actual relationship a try. i reckon the key to it is to be the kind of man that girls swoon over and, even if they know they probably can't, still dream of having all to themselves...but then not letting being in a relationship change me into a different person than the man that the girl was swooning over to begin with...to be honest that was probably always an irrational fear of mine given who i am...but i've seen it happen to other people and i will never be one of those guys that says "it can't happen to me"...
in any case, i'm thinking about it now. it's interesting as, despite coming from a religious family, my outlook on life was so simple as a kid and teen. that, as a male, you compete. you fight for what you want. you go forward. that was it. i always had a sense of honor and fair competition and was never a bully - in fact the opposite, high level competion always brought out the best in me - ...but the mindset was simple. other males were just associates at best, enemies at worse, and girls were just fuck toys to me.
when i became an adult i kept that mind set for a while, but eventually changed it a little bit as i became more in tune with the sufferings of others. and i think it was for the better...
i'd reckon just combining my old ways, with the greater sense of empathy i have devloped, would make for a great man for a girl and a great father
be the man that the girls were swooning over, and stay that way when you are in a relationship with one. if you are that guy, be sure to stay that guy. girls dream about having that guy all for themselves...so long as he stays that guy when she has him to herself
the bigger problem is me not getting bored of the girl and having to turn down all the other girls i could be getting with...but if children are involved - which they would be or i wouldn't be bothering to begin with - i could make it work
golly i'm starting to think all the good looking, athletic deadbeats with a baker's dozen baby mamas have the right idea making the tax payer foot the bill...because at the end of the day and one hundred years from now....one thousand years from now...those "deadbeats" will have descendants that will continue their bloodline...can't say the same about most of the cucks footing the bill and paying for other mens' children
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Poe
Well-known member
Think that's just maturing on your end. You do compete with every other man but as you get older that competition becomes less in your face, except in sport, and more abstract. Gathering more wealth, more independence, giving your kids a better education and ensuring they find great partners to pair up with and have beautiful, intelligent grandkids. Having "fuck you" money and a family that is beyond provided for is a far bigger flex than winning a fight or a game against your fellow man, intergenerational wealth is a victory on a level even farther above that that.
As for women being fucktoys, it's a mistake to think that way as you get older. Women are emotionally cunning creatures who have evolved to use your mentality against you to get what they want, and if you have kids with one they will be the ones who set the kids mentality for life from an early age. Young guys have nothing for a young woman to take, on average, but as an old man this isn't the case. Anyway having 10 kids with 7 women can get you a lot of descendants but none of them are likely to be great men even leaving aside single parent statistics which imply most of them would likely be drug addicts. Better to find a woman who thinks long term and you can stand, and then grow together as you have 5 kids all of whom are well rounded.
This is admittedly extremely hard. If you are in good shape it takes dedication and a nearly religious devotion to denouncing lust to not act when attractive women show interest. It gets easier though as your love for your partner starts to outweight lust for any rando, but this takes years and without the state actively punishing infidelity most people (men and women) break down before reaching that point I think.
It doesn't matter how similar you are to your children. Your existence, as a person, is not their existence. They are not you. You are a mix of your parents' DNA, but who you are is not merely your DNA. And none of this will matter once you're dead and gone. You can keep saying it matters, but you'll be dead, right? You won't be around to care if it matters or not. So what difference does it make? Everything you're saying is ultimately meaningless.
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Poe
Well-known member
There is little point in debating this, you have a "nothing matters" attitude that colorles fundamentally disagrees with. You two are talking in circles because there is a philosophical disagreement.
my life is insignificant compared to my genetic lineage; i am just the latest in a line that goes back to the beginning of time. just like you. and it is my obligation to both continue that genetic lineage, and prepare my children to the best of my knowledge and ability on how to do survive, thrive and do the same
i don't care if i won't remember anything or any of it when i am dead. that is beyond insignificant to me. every man i have ever seen that has had a large family, many sons, some daughters, etc. that they had properly prepared for the rigors of life and have had children of their own, that has lived until old age and was soon to die of old age...was both happy and content with their lives knowing that they were passing the generational baton so to speak onto their descendants
as for me, personally, i have to learn how to actually live with a woman and raise a family. i wasn't raised in a perfectly structured family myself but i had one thing many of my friends didn't: a father. and a grand father as well (adoptive not biological but still important in my life). because of that combined with my own life experiences, raising my own children is something i am very confident i am up to the task of. living with a woman long term though...is something i will have to figure out and, yes, i am aware of how cunning girls can be but i have my way with them. again, i'm not trying to come off as arrogant here...but this would all be alot harder if i wasn't who i am...which is why i sympathize with so many men that were not born as lucky as i am and understand that a society where the every man does not have reasonable access to fertile females...is a society in for a tumultuous future in one way or the other
i don't care if i won't remember anything or any of it when i am dead. that is beyond insignificant to me. every man i have ever seen that has had a large family, many sons, some daughters, etc. that they had properly prepared for the rigors of life and have had children of their own, that has lived until old age and was soon to die of old age...was both happy and content with their lives knowing that they were passing the generational baton so to speak onto their descendants
as for me, personally, i have to learn how to actually live with a woman and raise a family. i wasn't raised in a perfectly structured family myself but i had one thing many of my friends didn't: a father. and a grand father as well (adoptive not biological but still important in my life). because of that combined with my own life experiences, raising my own children is something i am very confident i am up to the task of. living with a woman long term though...is something i will have to figure out and, yes, i am aware of how cunning girls can be but i have my way with them. again, i'm not trying to come off as arrogant here...but this would all be alot harder if i wasn't who i am...which is why i sympathize with so many men that were not born as lucky as i am and understand that a society where the every man does not have reasonable access to fertile females...is a society in for a tumultuous future in one way or the other
My attitude isn't actually that nothing matters. Colorles made the claim that having children is all about continuing your lineage; my point is to challenge him to actually give a meaningful reason why that is true. To show that there is some ultimate difference if he "continues his lineage". If he can't, then it's just an unfounded claim. It's not a difference of philosophy, it's sophistry. His worldview doesn't give him any basis for anything he says to ultimately matter.
It's your obligation according to whom?
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
If you were from the nobility, then continuing the bloodline is important. Yet a large majority of humanity aren't nobility, so the need to continue the bloodline wouldn't be as important in commoners as much as it is with noble families.
Not true at all, for commoners children were the things that supported you in your old age. It was more important to have kids and lots of them for commoners not less.