• The Sietch will be brought offline for HPG systems maintenance tomorrow (Thursday, 2 May 2024). Please remain calm and do not start any interstellar wars while ComStar is busy. May the Peace of Blake be with you. Precentor Dune

Election 2020 Discussion Of Voter ID Laws. ( What A Boring Thread Title For A Hot Button Topic.)

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
The is literally nothing in the constitution about how long you lived in a place not being a valid condition for the vote. They just made shit up.
It's not so much the right to vote that is implicated, but the right to travel, which is part of the "privileges and immunities clause" of the 14th amendment, holding its originalist base from the Articles of Confederation, and considered so fundamental it didn't need to be listed in the Constitution.
 

Abhishekm

Well-known member
I mean if there is a residency requirement already is a lengthy of residency that out there? Not saying there should be but political office has residency length requirement already right? If only the 14 years residency to run for president and whatever else.

Given the whole move to Georgia to vote thing that sprang up during your Georgia runoffs atleast something to a length of residency requirement probabaly is in someone's book to bring up.
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
Question, did no one bring up the fact that state governors and judges were telling election boards what to do when it is the job of the legislature?
Yes, but the problem is that you have to convince judges that it was wrong for them to do so. A bit of a conflict of interest.
 

Abhishekm

Well-known member
Also I have to ask. Whats the US constitutions stance regarding emergency powers anyway? Are they actually a thing? And if they are where are they defined?
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
Also I have to ask. Whats the US constitutions stance regarding emergency powers anyway? Are they actually a thing? And if they are where are they defined?
They're not a thing in the constitution. But that's not a problem. Congress has passed laws (multiple, with different types of national emergencies, so I won't list them here), which are a thing in the constitution, that say a) there's a thing called a national emergency that the president can announce, and b) the president gets X powers when he does announce one. If Congress can constitutionally pass a law giving president X powers, then Congress can pass a law saying that the President can use X powers if he says "Abracadabra", for all the law cares. So the national emergency part is constitutional if what the government does is constitutional.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
The is literally nothing in the constitution about how long you lived in a place not being a valid condition for the vote. They just made shit up.

No, the Supreme Court did not "make shit up". They enforced the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which very explicitly establishes that no state may "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws".

Residency requirements directly violate the Fourteenth Amendment by denying equal status to citizens beyond any compelling state interest, and furthermore *also* impinge on the Constitutional right of citizens to travel freely within the country without facing retaliation from the government.
 

Morphic Tide

Well-known member
Residency requirements directly violate the Fourteenth Amendment by denying equal status to citizens beyond any compelling state interest, and furthermore *also* impinge on the Constitutional right of citizens to travel freely within the country without facing retaliation from the government.
There's very much a compelling interest for the state in question to actually assure its voters possess some measure of stake in the state they're voting on the politicians of. And it only qualifies as "retaliation" if you take the still-legally-dubious position that voting is a right unto itself (it's a tangled mess because it was originally very much a privilege and a lot of that stuff can sit on a shelf for centuries)

Most effective, legally speaking, would likely be mandating revocation of voting rights in one's prior state of residence to gain them in the state one has moved to, as it specifically keeps out a very obvious potential conflict of interest and guarantees they retain state-level voting rights somewhere.

Although the Fourteenth does have a condition for such a denial of voting rights being accepted. Namely, ineligible voters don't count for the census of House members.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Human locusts from California ruin their own state, move to another one, start voting for the same shit, and then "Nooooo, you can't stop me voting! You're violating muh human righterinos!"

As a californian I really am sorry about that but at the same time our only hope to fix things is if enough of these idiots leave so the rest of us can vote out the assholes fucking things over. Were not a smart bunch but when your forced to deal with the conquences eventally your stop touching the stove, and licking the electrical sockets.

Were still working on getting people to stop licking the electrical sockets its slow going.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
As a californian I really am sorry about that but at the same time our only hope to fix things is if enough of these idiots leave so the rest of us can vote out the assholes fucking things over. Were not a smart bunch but when your forced to deal with the conquences eventally your stop touching the stove, and licking the electrical sockets.

I have nothing but respect for all the Californians staying in their own state and fighting. I'm generally skeptical of those whose attachment to their home is only fair-weather, but I recognize that sometimes strategic retreats are necessary and there are good people who put a lot on the line fighting the good fight in unfavorable areas, and got burned for it. I can't begrudge someone who's put more on the line than I have taking an out. Even an ex-liberal Californian who realized that what they voted for sucks, gets out, and learns from their mistakes might deserve a bit of shit, and imo should not seek influence over their new place of residence and recognize why it might be curtailed, but I don't dislike them.

My loathing is reserved only for the sort of person who doesn't learn their lesson, moves rather than deal with the consequences, and after burning their own neighborhood down starts taking the exact same actions in mine.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
There's very much a compelling interest for the state in question to actually assure its voters possess some measure of stake in the state they're voting on the politicians of. And it only qualifies as "retaliation" if you take the still-legally-dubious position that voting is a right unto itself (it's a tangled mess because it was originally very much a privilege and a lot of that stuff can sit on a shelf for centuries)

I would point out here that you're moving the goalposts from your previous argument that "SCOTUS made it up out of thin air!" to "I disagree with SCOTUS' interpretation of the Constitution!" Ironically, it is you who are concocting from "thin air" this vague and indeterminate yet somehow compelling interest in people being "right thinking" before they can vote, which exists nowhere in Western philosophy or jurisprudence.

Most effective, legally speaking, would likely be mandating revocation of voting rights in one's prior state of residence to gain them in the state one has moved to, as it specifically keeps out a very obvious potential conflict of interest and guarantees they retain state-level voting rights somewhere.

That's already accounted for in the very SCOTUS precedent you're whining about. SCOTUS ruled that an extended duration residential requirement is unconstitutional on its face, but states *are* Constitutionally permitted to carry out bona fide residency verification before registering new voters; they are not required to offer instant on-the-spot registration.
 
Last edited:

Morphic Tide

Well-known member
I would point out here that you're moving the goalposts from your previous argument that "SCOTUS made it up out of thin air!" to "I disagree with SCOTUS' interpretation of the Constitution!"
That SCOTUS made it up out of thin air is not my previous argument, that would be Doomsought's. To be more particular in my disagreement, the specific quote you gave being the reason is fundamentally at odds with the existence of American Samoa and how recent immigrants are categorized. The same text is what guarantees immigrants the protection of the law, to my understanding.

Non-citizen residents are a still existent legal category, on every level of importance to the discussion. So unless you have a ruling saying the free travel guarantee in the Constitution requires a State to automatically consider any federal citizen in their jurisdiction a state citizen, even while they remain a citizen of a separate state, this makes for a framework that functions perfectly well, because it's already in use.

Ironically, it is you who are concocting from "thin air" this vague and indeterminate yet somehow compelling interest in people being "right thinking" before they can vote, which exists nowhere in Western philosophy or jurisprudence.
Conflicts of interest are a well established matter in both, and that's what talking of forbidding voting among welfare recipients and holding individuals to having vote-carrying residency in only one state amounts to. Moreso the former, obviously, but with the latter it gives some shred of pressure to assure the individuals casting votes do in fact think in terms of the good of the state they're voting for representatives in.

The entire reason the emoluments clause exists is because of this concept. While there is a vast difference between overseas noble titles and duel state citizenship of the intra-US sort, the underlying logic for the former being part of the Constitution applies just as well to the latter.
 
Last edited:

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
The residency question concerns me due to the stated plan some leftists have for moving to red states to turn them blue. Theoretically, they could move to these states just long enough to turn an election and then move back to their home state, with the only consequences being felt by the permanent residents of the state they just did that to.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
The residency question concerns me due to the stated plan some leftists have for moving to red states to turn them blue. Theoretically, they could move to these states just long enough to turn an election and then move back to their home state, with the only consequences being felt by the permanent residents of the state they just did that to.
That seems like a prime place to copy California's law that you have to keep paying their state taxes for 10 years after you move out of California.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Yeah about that, how is THAT not against that constitutional right to not have movement between states restricted that was brought up before?
Eh, let's not get off topic with that. But I think most courts would find it perfectly legit if you had to pay that state's income tax if you voted in their elections, which would still sponge a heft chunk off of blue states for election interference. After all you've had your representation so the taxation is valid.
 

Abhishekm

Well-known member
Eh, let's not get off topic with that. But I think most courts would find it perfectly legit if you had to pay that state's income tax if you voted in their elections, which would still sponge a heft chunk off of blue states for election interference. After all you've had your representation so the taxation is valid.
Nah, I get that but I mean like how would imposing a decade of double taxation for the act of moving not count as restricting travel? And if that is fine how is imposing a length of residency requirement that different?
 

Abhorsen

Local Degenerate
Moderator
Staff Member
Comrade
Osaul
Nah, I get that but I mean like how would imposing a decade of double taxation for the act of moving not count as restricting travel?
It probably does. This is a brand new law with lawsuits trying to get it tossed currently happening.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top