United States DC Airport Plane and Blackhawk Collision

If the pentagon has 600 million a year to spend on sushi they can afford to build proper training facilities so they don't kill civilians with inexperienced pilots.
Does the Pentagon not have a military style cafeteria where the people there can eat the same food the troops in the field get to enjoy? I know they have a menu they send out from the Department of Defense that military cafeterias go by. What is wrong with that?

Then again it may prompt them to improve the food service.
 
Does the Pentagon not have a military style cafeteria where the people there can eat the same food the troops in the field get to enjoy? I know they have a menu they send out from the Department of Defense that military cafeterias go by. What is wrong with that?

Then again it may prompt them to improve the food service.
you want to inflict the generals on the poor staffers? listen these are the most important people in the country. and that sushi budget is definitely used for sushi and not drugs and hookers.
 
Does the Pentagon not have a military style cafeteria where the people there can eat the same food the troops in the field get to enjoy? I know they have a menu they send out from the Department of Defense that military cafeterias go by. What is wrong with that?
There is a diffrence between field chow and normal DFACs. Even the Pentagon has an okay DFAC, same with the NSA etc.
CIA has the best cafeteria apperently
Then again it may prompt them to improve the food service.
Not really, SECDEF may force that anyway
you want to inflict the generals on the poor staffers? listen these are the most important people in the country. and that sushi budget is definitely used for sushi and not drugs and hookers.

What? No Blackjack?
I actually think the Sushi is for the DCMA or Defense Commisary Management Agency (iirc that's what's it called) is the grocery stores on posts.
They always have Sushi you can buy.
And every one who has access to get it.
 
Are A10s going to be flying into civilian Tucson airspace? The Blackhawks will be flying through Reagan in an emergency, and even non emergency need to be capable.
Do they normally have more than 500 hours to start this training?

.....so you think the training route would prepare them for incoming aircraft at night eith landing lights etc? Got it, let's see how well someone who trains in a sterile environment does compared to past pilots who have flown this path.
The point is, in this situation a training site would be useless.
Yeah, an environment that gets them used to the terrain and comfortable flying low to it with someone constantly watching them and barking at them if they get too high would be totally useless since there are no civilian airliners at risk. :rolleyes:

Have them use simulation systems?
Yeah, why not?

Yall do know that the US Military used to train in cities and the like right?
We stopped because people wernt happy with military doing such, so we made do with very small compounds on bases.
Yeah, I wonder if training accidents played any role in that. :cautious:

It sure is absurd how you'll defend even the slightest bit of criticism and try to brush aside literally any suggestions for improvement.
 
would you rather the president or high up cabinet members dyingnin a crash like this without proper training?
Yes. Yes I would.

Somehow you seem to think that elected and unelected officials are worth more than an airliner full of civilians. They are not Zach. They all accepted responsibilities by undertaking their roles in serving the American people. The people on the plane bought a plane ticket to DC. Can you see a difference here? I was explicit, I don't care if they were training to have President on board that helicopter and they were evacuating because it was Independence Day III and the Aliens were blowing up the White House again, they should not be endangering the lives of civilians for the sake of training.
 
Again, please stop jumping to conclusions.

We have multiple data points that may or may not be accurate. According to primary and secondary radar the collision occurred below 200 feet, which is below where the airliner 'should' have been based on normal glideslope, however the airliner had been diverted during approach to a different runway resulting in a non-standard glideslope. We also have black box data from the airliner which reportedly shows an altitude of 325 +/- 25 ft. We do not know if that reading was from the time of collision or was the last recorded prior to collision (in which case it could have been up to 30 seconds delayed). Until we have the full NTSB report we will not know what actually happened in sufficient detail to make any reasonable conclusions.

This particular helicopter corridor has been in use for decades, same with the flight corridor. It's just that all of the Murphy-tempting variables all lined up to read 'YES' at the worst possible moment, and the worst possible result happened.

So please, just wait for the NTSB, they are extremely good at their job.
 
Do they normally have more than 500 hours to start this training?
It would depend on the pilot and where they are getting them from.
Some have more then others, and from what I understand outside of SOAR, hours don't mean much as you can often make the amount needed at the unit.
And again, peacetime military with the pilots woth the kost often not being on the Blackhawk anymore
Yeah, an environment that gets them used to the terrain and comfortable flying low to it with someone constantly watching them and barking at them if they get too high would be totally useless since there are no civilian airliners at risk. :rolleyes:
Yeah...that doesn't work that way.
Pilots are ALWAYS flying to keep thier hours up.
Especially thier mission route, as that way they become used to it in every way.
You can get them a giant area, but it wouldnt be the same as what they need.
because they were flying at nught via NVGs.
can you accurately recreate an Airliner at night taking off and landing through NVGs that the pilot has to react to?
no, nit outside of simulators
Yeah, why not
i mean, you can only get so many hours on a simulator before doing the real thing, and again, it is completely diffrent when in tje bird vs in a simulation. You dont have the same environment. Which makes a diffrence. Add in they don't have thier crew chiefs in the simulators ans they play a VITAL role in these.

Yeah, I wonder if training accidents played any role in that. :cautious:
You do know we lose more soldiers to training accidents then we do combat right?
It is a risk factor taken into account when planning them.
airborne has a high as hell casulaty ratinf fir training jumps!
It sure is absurd how you'll defend even the slightest bit of criticism and try to brush aside literally any suggestions for improvement.
bevause i tend to actually know ehat is going on in most cases.
or can easily find out
Yes. Yes I would.

Somehow you seem to think that elected and unelected officials are worth more than an airliner full of civilians. They are not Zach. They all accepted responsibilities by undertaking their roles in serving the American people. The people on the plane bought a plane ticket to DC. Can you see a difference here? I was explicit, I don't care if they were training to have President on board that helicopter and they were evacuating because it was Independence Day III and the Aliens were blowing up the White House again, they should not be endangering the lives of civilians for the sake of training.

Then you are scarifing potentially even more then a single plane full.
Do you know how mamy covilians are in danger of military training on a constant basis? Its more then the traffic that gors through Reagan...
yes, but they generally trained out side the city until the pilot was ready for advanced maneuvers.
Most of the army never did training outside a city then in it.
And they would take it slow to learn how to maneuver but that it.
 
Yeah...that doesn't work that way.
Pilots are ALWAYS flying to keep thier hours up.
Especially thier mission route, as that way they become used to it in every way.
You can get them a giant area, but it wouldnt be the same as what they need.
I see no reason why that would be the case.

can you accurately recreate an Airliner at night taking off and landing through NVGs that the pilot has to react to?
Instructors with a radio.

i mean, you can only get so many hours on a simulator before doing the real thing, and again, it is completely diffrent when in tje bird vs in a simulation. You dont have the same environment. Which makes a diffrence.
Yeah, the difference is that noobs can get some training without risking lives.

You do know we lose more soldiers to training accidents then we do combat right?
Which is why training in cities and putting civilian lives at risk for it is stupid.

bevause i tend to actually know ehat is going on in most cases.
And the people here aren't completely stupid either.
 
Once upon a time, the Navy built full-size replicas of Japanese battleships out in the desert to train their pilots. Maybe should use some of that massive amount of land the government owns to make a full-scale model of the area to do this kind of training in.
The Army Air Forces built *one* replica Japanese warship -- a Takao class heavy cruiser, not a battleship -- out of four-by-fours, chicken wire, and tar paper, out at Muroc. Not an entire fleet of them.
 
Soo, still real dumb. As previously pointed out very few flight hours seem to indicate a loosening of experience required to train in this environment. In what way is allowing inexperienced pilots to train in this area worth the cost in civilian life? Like in its real essential to train in the approach of a civilian airport? Nowhere else to fly that helicopter?
Extensively and regularly training under real-life conditions is why the U.S. military is the best in the world. They should do everything practical to minimize unnecessary risk, but at the end of the day -- yes, it is worth the cost in civilian lives.

In fact, we should go back to Cold War era procedures where the military was even more aggressive in training and civilians "in the way" were expected to just suck it up. For example, the military *should* be operating supersonic whenever and wherever it pleases, and all noise complaints about it should be roundfiled.

(If anything, noise restrictions on civilian airliners should be rolled back as well. The fuel efficiency and economy of modern airliners is good; the way they cater to whiny Karens about noise is not.)
 
Yeah...that doesn't work that way.
Pilots are ALWAYS flying to keep thier hours up.
Especially thier mission route, as that way they become used to it in every way.
You can get them a giant area, but it wouldnt be the same as what they need.
because they were flying at nught via NVGs.
can you accurately recreate an Airliner at night taking off and landing through NVGs that the pilot has to react to?
no, nit outside of simulators
Yeah because 450 hours of flight over a six year career is a clear sign that you're always flying to keep your hours up. Nevermind the fact that the civilian pilot you crashed into probably clocked in twice that amount of flight time over the course of one year.
 
Yeah because 450 hours of flight over a six year career is a clear sign that you're always flying to keep your hours up. Nevermind the fact that the civilian pilot you crashed into probably clocked in twice that amount of flight time over the course of one year.
And...there are MAJs who have over 8 years with only 600 hours.
Officers do not fly much especially in the UH/HH 60s.
Here is from Rotorcraft of pilots saying the average amount.
They say a Comissioned officer, in which she was, make around 800 to 1200 hours over TEN YEARS!.
she isnt a warrant, her main job is not flying helicopters.....
From what Quora says. US Army Helicopter pilots log from between 100 to 200 hours per year flight time.

However the NTSB has yet to release their findings. It's too early.
For warrants yes, most commissioned don't make the minimums.
 

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