ISOT Dark Angels + successors & Imperial Fists + successors (+ Dorn and Johnson) in Star Wars galaxy.

[Tyzuris]

Assume that Dark Angels and Imperial Fists along with their successor chapters + their recruitment worlds + logistical support worlds (and also The Rock + Phalanx) get transported to Outer Rim a decade before the start of The Phantom Menace. Assume that these worlds are located in a strip of space two thousand light years wide and 500 light years deep between Bothan and Hutt Space. And assume this is after Primaris introduction. For the sake of debate assume Dorn implements The Last Wall and Lion just wakes up and tells Azrael to tell the other Chapters to start to act like a Legion even in public. Also assume the Warp in SW galaxy is calm and not the Daemon-infested hellhole it became after The War in the Heavens. Assume the total amount of Imperial Fists + Dark Angels + successors is somewhere around 400000 (considering how there was hundreds of thousands of Primaris made).

How will Dorn and Johnson act in this new situation?

 

[Scooby Doo]

They easily conquer the demilitarized setting with in a decade.

 

[PsihoKekec]

I pity the fools who dare to stand the legion onslaught.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Yeah even Clone Wars and Galactic Empire era would have a hard time with this.

Prior to Phantom Menace there's no standing army, heck it takes the Separatists ten years to build up AFTER Phantom Menace.

The only standing armies would probably be a couple million battle droids of various designs and spread out mercenary thugs in light armor.

 

[Tyzuris]

Okay let's branch this out to a handful of alternate scenarios:

1) As laid out in the op.

2) During the Attack of the Clones

3) Clone Wars a couple of months before Revenge of the Sith starts

4) A few years before A New Hope

5) During Empire Strikes Back

 

[Scooby Doo]

SC1) They conquer the galaxy in a decade
SC2) Depends on what Palpatine does, if he's in control he probably has the Separatists throw themselves at the Spacemarines while he builds up the Republic and blockade the Spacemarine expansion but end up getting conquered after the Separatists are defeated.

If he's not in charge the Separatists stay on the defensive and use the Imperium forces as a barrier to halt Republic advances who subsequently get squashed and annexed while the Separatists enter an indefinite stalemate due to their high industry and infantry.

4) Death Star

5) They stalemate the Spacemarine forces before eventually breaking it with Xyston Destroyers after a decade or so of combat.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Death Star gets taken out by a Space Marines strike force who fight their way to the main reactor and blow it up with melta bombs. In WH40K an entire chapter sacrificed itself, destroying a Necron equivalent of Death Star and Imperials are nowhere as deadly as Necrons.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Death Star gets taken out by a Space Marines strike force who fight their way to the main reactor and blow it up with melta bombs. In WH40K an entire chapter sacrificed itself, destroying a Necron equivalent of Death Star and Imperials are nowhere as deadly as Necrons.

How did they take it out?

Cuz the Death Star would likely have an escort if it's going up against an actual Navy, the Death Star doesn't seem vulnerable to non stealth based boarding actions considered its numerous point defense turrets and Tie Fighters for screening.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

How did they take it out?

Cuz the Death Star would likely have an escort if it's going up against an actual Navy, the Death Star doesn't seem vulnerable to non stealth based boarding actions considered its numerous point defense turrets and Tie Fighters for screening.

Same way the Rebels got close. They fly small'ish, maneuverable boarding vessels, AND they teleport onto the Death Star.

 

[PsihoKekec]

I think they rammed battleship into it, but in the case of the Death Star they can do teleportation because Imperials do not have Necron cheese tech. Also Death Star kind of lacked escorts in the New Hope.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Same way the Rebels got close. They fly small'ish, maneuverable boarding vessels, AND they teleport onto the Death Star.

Hmm tbf tho the X-Wing is stupidly small and fast and still couldn't board just target the weak spot.

Don't they need like actual escort sized ships to provide the energy to teleport?

It would be hard to close the distance with how far the Death Star can shoot.

I think they rammed battleship into it, but in the case of the Death Star they can do teleportation because Imperials do not have Necron cheese tech. Also Death Star kind of lacked escorts in the New Hope.

Counter argument

1) What's the range of the teleportation? How many have teleportation abilities and how many can be teleported at a time?

Because if they can only teleport a company sized force of Spacemarines I still give the several million strong garrison odds of taking them down eventually especially with how big the layout is and the various blaster doors.

2) ANH lacked escorts because they didn't expect any heavy navy ships only fighters which its shields would be invulnerable to, we see the doctrine in ROTJ that they bring escorts against Rebel Capital ships.

I doubt they'd send the Death Star alone against an entire fleet.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Hmm tbf tho the X-Wing is stupidly small and fast and still couldn't board just target the weak spot.

Don't they need like actual escort sized ships to provide the energy to teleport?

It would be hard to close the distance with how far the Death Star can shoot.


Counter argument

1) What's the range of the teleportation? How many have teleportation abilities and how many can be teleported at a time?

Because if they can only teleport a company sized force of Spacemarines I still give the several million strong garrison odds of taking them down eventually especially with how big the layout is and the various blaster doors.

2) ANH lacked escorts because they didn't expect any heavy navy ships only fighters which its shields would be invulnerable to, we see the doctrine in ROTJ that they bring escorts against Rebel Capital ships.

I doubt they'd send the Death Star alone against an entire fleet.

Couple things. The Death Star is not maneuverable and takes time for it's super laser to brought to bear. Warp travel in this Galaxy would let him slip up pretty close to the Death Star before coming back into real space. At that point, it's not going to be hard for even capital ships to maneuver outside the Super laser's arc.

Range on teleportation is fairly far, specially when not hampered by an excited Warp. They can teleport a full company depending on the ship/s doing the work. But they can also deliver a several full sized units from a single drop ship that simply rams the deathstar's outer hull and then "melta'ing" a channel deeper into the hull.

As for the millions of troopers on board...they are going to be chaff before a whirlwind. The only real threat to the SM is going to be Darth Vader...and he's gonna get hosed by the SM, and the places where the Imperials can actually employ anti-armor weaponry, not just blasters and EWebs.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Couple things. The Death Star is not maneuverable and takes time for it's super laser to brought to bear. Warp travel in this Galaxy would let him slip up pretty close to the Death Star before coming back into real space. At that point, it's not going to be hard for even capital ships to maneuver outside the Super laser's arc.

It's definitely not as maneuverable but it's strength is its resilience and range, sure they can warp travel close but how precise can they do that?

Because the Death Star can just hyperspace to safety if its surrounded would take a minute tops.

Mean while every ships lost by the Spacemarine faction here is going to take several years to replenish

Which could end up causing them to retreat unless they carry like planet killing energy weapons in their fleet spec.

Range on teleportation is fairly far, specially when not hampered by an excited Warp. They can teleport a full company depending on the ship/s doing the work. But they can also deliver a several full sized units from a single drop ship that simply rams the deathstar's outer hull and then "melta'ing" a channel deeper into the hull.

Hmm doubt, the Death Star has absolutely massive shields it's likely that any ramming attempts will result in the Spacemarine ships blowing up.

Look here the Executor crashes and barely does anything to the DSII which is just a larger Death Star so it should have comparable shields and armor.


A regular Star Destroyer weighs 40 million tons, Executor is 12x the size which would be around the ballpark of 480 million tons

Imperium Battleships only weigh around nine million tons, so any ship trying to ram will go splat.

As for the millions of troopers on board...they are going to be chaff before a whirlwind. The only real threat to the SM is going to be Darth Vader...and he's gonna get hosed by the SM, and the places where the Imperials can actually employ anti-armor weaponry, not just blasters and EWebs.

Disagree, we know Guardsmen in sufficient numbers can kill Spacemarines with volume of fire and Blasters are comparable.

And no Spacemarine short of a Psyker or Primarchs is going to be able to beat Vader from either canon who has ridiculous feats and very few low ends.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

It's definitely not as maneuverable but it's strength is its resilience and range, sure they can warp travel close but how precise can they do that?

In calm Warp...within a thousand km if not hundreds of km.

Because the Death Star can just hyperspace to safety if its surrounded would take a minute tops.

And the SM forces would be able to do the same.

Which could end up causing them to retreat unless they carry like planet killing energy weapons in their fleet spec.

Every SM cruiser level vessel carries continent cracking Nova Lances, and a number of the smaller vessels do as well. This doesn't even consider their Capital vessels.

Imperium Battleships only weigh around nine million tons, so any ship trying to ram will go splat.

Ummm...no, many of the SM vessels are specifically designed with ramming prows so that they can penetrate through the armored hull of vessels just like the Deathstar. Once they impact, the front opens up and the entire SM crew begins offensive boarding actions.

And no Spacemarine short of a Psyker or Primarchs is going to be able to beat Vader from either canon who has ridiculous feats and very few low ends.

If Darth ever ran into a Primarch, he'd be screwed. There power level is that rediculous. They are bigger than Darth. They are faster than Darth. They are stronger than Darth. They are more resilient than Darth. He may be able to delay them with the Force, but I have no doubt that in close in fight, Darth Vader dies.

Any veteran Marine with a force weapon or power weapon is likely going to be able to out-dual Darth Vader. The Force may prevent that from happening, but only while it allows the rest of the Marines to take him out. There will be no deflection of bolter rounds back at the Marines. Another downside, Darth's lightsaber isn't going to automatically penetrate the SM armor either. It may, but it won't just slice through like it wasn't there. All that aside...the SM are perfectly willing to place a few able opponents in front of Darth so they can delay him while the rest blow up the station.

 

[Scooby Doo]

In calm Warp...within a thousand km if not hundreds of km.

Can they do that mid combat?

And the SM forces would be able to do the same.

Yeah but if you're trying to take down the Death Star running away isn't going to help mean while it can one shot left and right even the strongest ships.

Mean while they can build the Death Star in like 4 years with the main limitation being the Kyber Crystal technology, in just like twenty they'll be able to mass produce miniaturized with Xystons.

The longer the fight goes the worst it goes for the Spacemarines.

Every SM cruiser level vessel carries continent cracking Nova Lances, and a number of the smaller vessels do as well. This doesn't even consider their Capital vessels.

That's fine but they can only shoot once or twice per half an hour, the Death Stars shields should be comparable to its fire power and with how fast those shields recharge they are going to be no selling the Lances.

You'll need like an energy version of cyclonic torpedos and those torpedos can be shot down by the ridiculous amount of Point Defenses

Ummm...no, many of the SM vessels are specifically designed with ramming prows so that they can penetrate through the armored hull of vessels just like the Deathstar. Once they impact, the front opens up and the entire SM crew begins offensive boarding actions.

Ummm no?

We see what happens when 420 million ton ship crashes, and if you want to get even more technical if it's going at 6 kilometers a second it's going to be crashing into that section with the force of 6,858,316,634,400 tons of TNT or other wise Teratons.

it's literally impossible for the ramming ships to do anything but go splat because the Deathstar armor and shields can no sell teratons of fire power focused on one spot.

Some Imperium ships can't even survive that amount of firepower, it's statistically impossible for them to board via ramming

They can only board with teleportation

If Darth ever ran into a Primarch, he'd be screwed. There power level is that rediculous. They are bigger than Darth. They are faster than Darth. They are stronger than Darth. They are more resilient than Darth. He may be able to delay them with the Force, but I have no doubt that in close in fight, Darth Vader dies.

I agree only a Primarch can beat Vader

Any veteran Marine with a force weapon or power weapon is likely going to be able to out-dual Darth Vader. The Force may prevent that from happening, but only while it allows the rest of the Marines to take him out. There will be no deflection of bolter rounds back at the Marines. Another downside, Darth's lightsaber isn't going to automatically penetrate the SM armor either. It may, but it won't just slice through like it wasn't there. All that aside...the SM are perfectly willing to place a few able opponents in front of Darth so they can delay him while the rest blow up the station.

Ern no lol, Vader would TK crush entire groups of Spacemarines with each and TK deflect their bolter fire. No Spacemarine that isn't a Pysker or Primarchs is doing a thing.

He'll redirect bolter rockets back to Spacemarines easily killing them.

Or use his Kaiju mouth closing TK strength to crush them or his spaceship stopping TK. Like he also did in Kenobi.

No number of Spacemarines are taking him down, you need a Pysker or Primarch

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Can they do that mid combat?

Yes.

We see what happens when 420 million ton ship crashes, and if you want to get even more technical if it's going at 6 kilometers a second it's going to be crashing into that section with the force of 6,858,316,634,400 tons of TNT or other wise Teratons.

it's literally impossible for the ramming ships to do anything but go splat because the Deathstar armor and shields can no sell teratons of fire power focused on one spot.

Some Imperium ships can't even survive that amount of firepower, it's statistically impossible for them to board via ramming

They can only board with teleportation

That's what all the Lance and Melta weaponry is for in the nose. It softens the armor for the ram.

No number of Spacemarines are taking him down, you need a Pysker or Primarch

Probably, but not impossible. There are numerous accounts of non-psyker marines taking out very powerful psykers. It always hurts, but it happens.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Yes.

Any examples you can source?

That's what all the Lance and Melta weaponry is for in the nose. It softens the armor for the ram.

Thing is it's just not gonna happen the Death Star shields are just too strong. You can even scale from the Hoth Shield which is smaller than the Star and could nigh indefinitely with stand orbital bombardment from the Executor and thirty something Star Destroyers.


It's shields are just too strong, by the time they unleash enough fire power to break through the Death Star would have killed all the Imperium ships.



It can fire it's Jehda lvl blasts in like five seconds.

The Disney comic shows what happened after wards from that ONE not full power shot.

Probably, but not impossible. There are numerous accounts of non-psyker marines taking out very powerful psykers. It always hurts, but it happens.

I'd say it's impossible unless we're low-balling Vader. He can literally take their Chainsword from them and kill them all with their own weapons

Multi tasking is consistent for him

Even a force push should have the force to OHK anyone not a Primarch.

Online Metals Weight Calculator | OnlineMetals.com®

Assuming made out of steel metal and these dimensions

8.8 meters in width, 35.75 meters in length and less than a meter in thickness (say 0.3)

(These dimensions because the Millennium Falcon escaped through there and still had enough space to squeeze by.

So the wall would have weighed roughly 804 tons assuming it was made out of basic steel and only 9 inches thick.

He's sending these with enough force to generate massive gusts of wind like a vacuum so let's say it's only 100 mph.

That's about 799 megajoules of force, he's one shotting every non Primarch he comes across.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Any examples you can source?

Teleports happen regularly in the midst of battle from ship to ship as well as ship to planetary surface. They are all over the place in fluff and game mid-battle. Heck, there are even ways to teleport squads out of the midst of a hand to hand fight.

It's shields are just too strong, by the time they unleash enough fire power to break through the Death Star would have killed all the Imperium ships.

Where is this? DS1 allowed fighters to skim it's surface and go below it into the trench. Why didn't they get destroyed by the Deathstar's shields? The DS2 was crunched into by the Executor; that was a surface impact where the shields didn't have any interaction with it. I don't remember a single instance of DS1 or DS2 having their own inherent shielding, or even it being mentioned in the movies. We assume they have it simply be being a Star Wars Vessel/Station/Moon.

...........................................................

As for Vader's power...he's only really ridiculously powered in the Comics, which are limited in their canonicity (sp?). I'm really only looking at his performance on screen. Yes, he's powerful, and he would still likely be able to take a small squad of standard SMs...maybe even a full 10-man squad. He's not getting through those combats unscathed. Those hits add up, and mean he's going to go down. Especially when his force powers are being matched by a psyker. In that situation, he's likely to go down quick when the other SMs lend assistance.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Teleports happen regularly in the midst of battle from ship to ship as well as ship to planetary surface. They are all over the place in fluff and game mid-battle. Heck, there are even ways to teleport squads out of the midst of a hand to hand fight.

No I mean like ships engaging and then warp jumping into flanking close range. I don't think they can do that in the middle of a fight, teleport boarding in the middle of a fight yeah but I'm pretty sure if they can do precise warp jumps consistently that ramming wouldn't be necessary.

Where is this? DS1 allowed fighters to skim it's surface and go below it into the trench. Why didn't they get destroyed by the Deathstar's shields? The DS2 was crunched into by the Executor; that was a surface impact where the shields didn't have any interaction with it. I don't remember a single instance of DS1 or DS2 having their own inherent shielding, or even it being mentioned in the movies. We assume they have it simply be being a Star Wars Vessel/Station/Moon.

Star Wars #39

Disney canon comic.


And it is mentioned to be shielded in a New Hope by the Rebels

DODONNA The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. It's defenses are designed around a direct large- scale assault. A small one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defense.

And it was only possible because 1) They didn't know about the hidden design flaw and 2) they underestimated the Rebels.

DODONNA Well, the Empire doesn't consider a small one-man fighter to be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense. An analysis of the plans provided by Princess Leia has demonstrated a weakness in the battle station.

...........................................................

As for Vader's power...he's only really ridiculously powered in the Comics, which are limited in their canonicity (sp?). I'm really only looking at his performance on screen. Yes, he's powerful, and he would still likely be able to take a small squad of standard SMs...maybe even a full 10-man squad. He's not getting through those combats unscathed. Those hits add up, and mean he's going to go down. Especially when his force powers are being matched by a psyker. In that situation, he's likely to go down quick when the other SMs lend assistance.

Nope all the Disney comics of Vader are 100% canon.

Even a hundred Spacemarines wouldn't be able to do anything his TK is just too strong and wide ranged. This is the same Vader that killed 1,000 Rebels with tank support in a ambush and came out unscathed.

The nail is the coffin is that he can redirect all the Bolter rounds with the force like this and there's nothing they can do about it.

Proton Torpedo's travel around 1 km a second


Which means he has more than enough reaction speed to deflect the bolters with the force or erect a barrier.


Heck even if you thought the comics were non canon we already see him in his previous self have the reflexes to react to hyper Sonic AAT projectiles and fuel explosions

They really don't stand a chance, his TK and Precognition is too OCP.


Regular Spacemarines don't have the stats to brute force him like regular pyskers.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Just some additional examples of how outmatched a Spacemarine would be against Vader.


By calcs this pillar should be roughly between 15-18 tons. Obi-Wan had the TK strength to push that down and direct it's path.

Vader not only casually stopped it but stonewalled Kenobi's double digit TK strength despite Kenobi going all out. Then Vader completely blows through Kenobi's pressure and sends the pillar like a baseball launched away.





Vader can literally make the physical strength of the Marine irrelevant, no unarmed fodder Spacemarine has 30+ Tonner Strength.

They can't even get close to him since they'll have nothing to push off of and he's more than strong enough to rip or damage any gun they have even if he couldn't pin their arms in place like this