COVERING CRYPTO : DISCUSSIONS ON CRYPTOCURRENCIES, NON-FUNGIBLE TOKENS,CHANNELS, APPS, ALTERNATIVES TO BANKS & WEBSITES

[TheRejectionist]

Hello to everyone,

@Spartan303 and the staff of the-sietch.com gave the go ahead to start the discussion on it. I was and still unsure if this should be labelled as technology because it does involve more about money, but since these type of money (and equivalents) are in the digital world, I think it fits for now.

Why I started this thread ?

At some point or another you would have to deal with :

1. Banks, some are honest but often you find scam-like ones or you pay a steep price just leave your money "safe"
2. Loss of monetary privacy, because both Italy and the United States (and other countries) governments apparently want to track and check how much money you have or you don't have in your bank account and I have yet to find someone who likes said move from the government
3. State control. If you look what happened in all of the "civilized" "world", you know now what they are capable of, together with their allies colluding with the state or vice versa.
4. Exclusion. This is a very recent one. You know exactly what is happening.

As I previously stated , I consider myself a leftist but that doesn't mean I want monopolist dystopia, or to know how much someone is making or similar info. It's not my right or duty and certainly is not the governments. The only notable exception would be individuals like Jimmy Saville and Jeffrey Epstein and others who should be under scrutiny but as this guys said :

So screw them!

 

[posh-goofiness]

No amount of crypto is going to save you from the IRS and similar. They will always have ability to kick down your door and point guns at your face. Ergo, crypto will not save you from the government.

Using privacy cryptos like zCash or Monero won't save you because if you trade crypto-to-crypto the exchange will report you. If you trade fiat-to-crypto, the banks will report you.

 

[TheRejectionist]

No amount of crypto is going to save you from the IRS and similar. They will always have ability to kick down your door and point guns at your face. Ergo, crypto will not save you from the government.

Using privacy cryptos like zCash or Monero won't save you because if you trade crypto-to-crypto the exchange will report you. If you trade fiat-to-crypto, the banks will report you.

Isn't this a bit of doomerposting ?

You see no alternatives ?

 

[posh-goofiness]

Isn't this a bit of doomerposting ?

You see no alternatives ?

The first 3 points you made I just don't see being solved by using a cryptocurrency.

1. Most banks aren't scams. "Most" banks are local. If you mean "most banks" as "most big banks" then I agree. Crypto doesn't save you from this.
   • Alternative 1: Hardware Wallets
     • The normie adopter of cryptos will not use this. For one, they have an expensive up front cost. They also need to be replaced as technologies advance. They can be damaged. They can be stolen.
   • Alternative 2: Software Wallets
     • The average normie is going to use this solution. These smoothbrains can't even manage GPG keys. They're going to easily fuck up and lose their private keys. They will accidentally release them to others. They're going to get viruses on their computers and phones that will compromise their money.
   • Alternative 3: 3rd-party wallets
     • Right back to the problems we have with banks.
2. There is no monetary privacy. Not even with privacy coins. Any attempt to create opaque markets using these currencies don't have banks spying on you- they have the FBI, CIA, IRS, NSA, what-have-you spying on you. It will go the same way as Silk Road. Strangled in the crib, creators arrested, users arrested.
3. State control. See "guns in your face".
4. I need an elaboration on this point. I don't know what you mean by exclusion.

Crypto alone won't save us. There are deep cultural and legal reasons why they won't save us. The only way cryptos don't become an even worse system of control and manipulation than we already have is by changing our culture and laws.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I am interested in hardware wallets. What do you know about them? Have you used them?

 

[posh-goofiness]

I have not used them. I use a software wallet on encrypted storage that gets booted and connected to the internet only when I need to make some sort of transaction.

There's two big hardware wallet makers, Trezor and Ledger. Both have had hardware releases making previous wallets virtually obsolete. They have storage for a limited number of private keys (if ~100-1000s of keys counts as "limited"). Both require software to interact with the wallet and the software can integrate with certain exchanges. Of course, you can trade crypto manually using the software as long as both parties have addresses to exchange cryptos.

The wallets provide a mechanism to restore your wallets is you lose or break your device. These usually consist of 12 or 24 word recovery keys. On top of the upfront cost of the wallet, it's usually a good idea to get steel or titanium kits that let you store the recovery key in a way that basically can't be destroyed.

Both these things require you to store the hardware securely. You need to keep it in a safe or something equally secure or you can lose access to your wallet.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I have not used them. I use a software wallet on encrypted storage that gets booted and connected to the internet only when I need to make some sort of transaction.

I guess you don't use any type of computer to make said transactions.

There's two big hardware wallet makers, Trezor and Ledger. Both have had hardware releases making previous wallets virtually obsolete. They have storage for a limited number of private keys (if ~100-1000s of keys counts as "limited"). Both require software to interact with the wallet and the software can integrate with certain exchanges. Of course, you can trade crypto manually using the software as long as both parties have addresses to exchange cryptos.

Where would you buy them? How are them made obsolete? You have to buy one every new release in Apple Iphone style?

The wallets provide a mechanism to restore your wallets is you lose or break your device. These usually consist of 12 or 24 word recovery keys. On top of the upfront cost of the wallet, it's usually a good idea to get steel or titanium kits that let you store the recovery key in a way that basically can't be destroyed.

Yes. It's steep. It seems still doable until now (for me at least).

Both these things require you to store the hardware securely. You need to keep it in a safe or something equally secure or you can lose access to your wallet.

Also this is doable. Unless we start talking in the 10000s.

So there is no way to be untraceable, invisible and so on with your own money?

 

[posh-goofiness]

I guess you don't use any type of computer to make said transactions.

Er. What? It's a software wallet on an encrypted drive. You boot the OS on the drive on a computer, yes. I'm not sure what you mean here.

Where would you buy them? How are them made obsolete? You have to buy one every new release in Apple Iphone style?

Definitely buy them directly from Trezor or Ledger. Third party resellers are a potential security breach.

Yes. It's steep. It seems still doable until now (for me at least).

Also this is doable. Unless we start talking in the 10000s.

It's a few hundred dollars for the wallet and ~$100 for the backup. It's not too bad. It's not too great either. My point in my earlier post is that normies aren't going to want to use it. It's not convenient. For normies, it's also not secure.

So there is no way to be untraceable, invisible and so on with your own money?

It's not that you can't make your transactions invisible. Fiat paper does that just fine now. The problem is that an absence of financial activity just puts a target on your back. This sort of thing has been tried before. Black markets exist, after all. They all get shut down eventually. The IRS will see that your SSN suddenly has no reported income and they'll come knocking. With guns. The FBI tracks online marketplaces. They will eventually shut them down and track down the users. With guns.

Hiding transactions won't save us. This comes to the big cultural changes I keep saying. We need to go in the exact opposite direction. 100% transparent transactions auditable, visible, and attestable.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Crypto has consistently come across as a problem in search of another problem.

For example, look at your own points here:

Banks, some are honest but often you find scam-like ones or you pay a steep price just leave your money "safe"

First off, that's not at all true, keeping you money in a bank is almost always perfectly safe. It has downsides, most notably inflation eating away at the relatively value of your savings, but the money will still be there when you need it, even if someone flat out robs the bank and steals all the money, because banks are insured.

By contrast, crypto exchanges regularly turn out to be scams, or collapse in on themselves when the markets turns on them, and you have zero recourse if you're robbed.

Loss of monetary privacy, because both Italy and the United States (and other countries) governments apparently want to track and check how much money you have or you don't have in your bank account and I have yet to find someone who likes said move from the government

I'll grant that crypto can solve this, maybe. However, it is hardly the only solution to that, this can be addressed via the conventional political process, and crypto has glaring downsides that conventional solutions lack.

State control. If you look what happened in all of the "civilized" "world", you know now what they are capable of, together with their allies colluding with the state or vice versa.

Crypto cannot solve this, because the state's control of its own currency and business transactions within its own territory give it more than enough leverage to force retailers into compliance with state goals. The point of currency is as a means of exchange, and the state has control over those exchanges.

Also, given that states can and have started cracking down on mining operations that form the backbone of most crypto currencies, suggesting that simply because they cannot control the mining itself they can't control crypto is....very wrong. No algorithm, no matter how expensive and complicated, will defeat a guy flipping a switch on a fusebox.

Exclusion. This is a very recent one. You know exactly what is happening.

The phrase "out of the frying pan, into the fire" comes to mind. Yes, payment processors and credit card companies can block your access to financial services, which is bad. By switching to crypto, you can block your own access to buying food, which is much worse.

Again, the point of currency is as a medium of exchange. If you cannot actually use the "money" in your wallet to obtain goods and services, they you don't actually have any money, just a bunch of ones and zeros on a hard drive. Crypto is not useful for the actual day to day transactions that people need to make, and without a critical mass of users (a critical mass of users it does not have and never will), it will remain a niche gimmick used only for niche gimmick things. And crime.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I doubt bitcoin will become a commonly used currency, for the reasons that have been brought up before:

• You can't really walk down the street and buy stuff from a yard sale with bitcoin (also RIP if there is a power outage or loss of internet).
• People are hopping on the bitcoin bandwagon not because they're going to use bitcoin as a currency - nobody does - but because they want to make dollars. The whole point is to mine crypto and then sell it for dollars, because dollars is what people actually use. Hardly anyone actually intends to turn their dollars into crypto and then keep it as crypto and buy stuff with crypto.
• Government regulation. The blockchain is public so if you're trying to do something discreetly, crypto is quite possibly one the worst ways to do this. You're better off just paying with cash, or trading paintings, or something.

I think this whole crypto fad will probably be forgotten within a few years, only really remembered for helping drive up GPU prices during the supply chain shortage.

 

[bintananth]

I am interested in hardware wallets. What do you know about them? Have you used them?

The only hardware wallet that's trustworthy is the one in your pocket and the money in it is only worth what you can buy with it.

Everything else - and the money in your wallet as well - is only worth what others think it is.

The $50 I keep in my wallet for emergencies ain't worth the paper it's printed on when the store says they won't accept anything larger than a $20 and checks to make sure those aren't fake.

 

[Cherico]

look I get that crypto is a decent option for people who live in first and second world countries but I live in california and were too stupid to make our own power so people like us need other options.

 

[bintananth]

look I get that crypto is a decent option for people who live in first and second world countries but I live in california and were too stupid to make our own power so people like us need other options.

Might I suggest rolls of quarters? That's money with some heft to it which, when placed in a bag, could really hurt someone when aggressively swung around.

 

[Cherico]

Might I suggest rolls of quarters? That's money with some heft to it which, when placed in a bag, could really hurt someone when aggressively swung around.

I know your joking but I do actually have rolls of quarters around my home and dollar coins I keep on hand just in case.

 

[bintananth]

I know your joking but I do actually have rolls of quarters around my home and dollar coins I keep on hand just in case.

Sorta joking ...

A roll of quarters weighs 8oz and will leave a mark when you fail to catch one that's been tossed to you.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I should add another reason why I am starting to think to use crypto and more. There is speculation in Europe, but Italy is already trying something like this, UBI. Reddito di cittadinanza, which is given even to rich mafiosi!

NO KIDDING.

So basically you will have to be already rich or you will have nothing and have to rely on the "government".

PROBLEM IS : What if they decide you have been naughty?

 

[posh-goofiness]

I should add another reason why I am starting to think to use crypto and more. There is speculation in Europe, but Italy is already trying something like this, UBI. Reddito di cittadinanza, which is given even to rich mafiosi!

NO KIDDING.

So basically you will have to be already rich or you will have nothing and have to rely on the "government".

PROBLEM IS : What if they decide you have been naughty?

They show up to your house with a SWAT team... and point guns at your face.

 

[bintananth]

They show up to your house with a SWAT team... and point guns at your face.

No, the IRS gets sent in. They're even less friendly than a SWAT team. The FBI was never able to gather enough evidence to jail Al Capone for any of the illegal things he did.

The IRS was able to nail him to the wall and send him to prison because he didn't pay taxes on all of his income.

Tax forms have an "other income" line. The IRS doesn't care where, how, or why you got the money as long as you tell them about it and include it when filing your tax return.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I will return to here when I have time guys ASAP.

Uni calls!

 

[Husky_Khan]

A news update.

Six CEO's of various Crypto companies will be appearing before the US House Financial Services Committee headed by the cerebral intellect known as Maxine Waters of California.

Jeremy Allaire, CEO of the USD Coin company Circle, is first on the list of executives that will attend the panel.

The list also includes Sam Bankman-Fried, CEO and founder of the crypto exchange FTX. It additionally includes Brian Brooks, current CEO of Bitfury and former acting comptroller for the U.S. Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC).

Chad Cascarilla, CEO of the stablecoin and brokerage firm Paxos, will also appear on the panel. Paxos is best known for powering crypto services for PayPal and Facebook’s Novi wallet.

Denelle Dixon, CEO of the Stellar Development Foundation, and Alesia Haas, CFO of Coinbase, will also make an appearance.

Crypto CEOs Will Testify Before U.S. House Panel

The U.S. House Committee on Financial Services has announced that several cryptocurrency executives will testify at a panel.

cryptobriefing.com

Apparently, it will be streamed online.