King Arts
Well-known member
@TheRomanSlayer @ATP
Here is a thread so other people will stop bitching about this conversation in other threads.
Here is a thread so other people will stop bitching about this conversation in other threads.
Catholic bullshit and defenses for it
- Thread starter King Arts
- Start date
Sorry,but no.
You must do something like " Silly @TheRomanSlayer rants against Chrystianitas".
Then,i could answer that.
King Arts
Well-known member
You created it,so you should change.Your problem,not mine.
Doomsought
Well-known member
There are two huge heresies that the Catholics were guilty of that made a reformation inevitable.
The most egregious is that the churches were accepting money in return from prayers. This is an act that literally had Jesus Christ chasing people around with a whip.
The other major heresy is the Saints. The saints are idols. Many of them were raised as a form of syncretism with pagan religions. This includes the worship of Mother Mary.
The most egregious is that the churches were accepting money in return from prayers. This is an act that literally had Jesus Christ chasing people around with a whip.
The other major heresy is the Saints. The saints are idols. Many of them were raised as a form of syncretism with pagan religions. This includes the worship of Mother Mary.
King Arts
Well-known member
It can’t be changed and it’s not my problem because I don’t care.
Veneration of saints is not a heresy though. Saints are those people that the church teaches have made it to heaven. Being respectful for them is not idol worship unless you think you should not be impressed or awwed by those who make big achievements.
Worshipping them is a sin yes but there is a difference between worship and intercession. Asking them to pray for you is not that different from asking fellow Christians at your church to pray for you.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
That was the actual sales of indulgences, which in return of payment, absolves one payer from sins or releases them from purgatory after death.
This kind of practice that went out of control was one of the main reasons for Martin Luther's posting of the 95 Theses.
Now, regarding one of the most corrupt Popes in all of Catholicism, Alexander VI, his election as Pope had been the result of bribery from other interesting parties, though the other candidates competing for the succession to Innocent VIII were Ascanion Sforza and Giuliano de la Rovere. His tenure was so corrupt that it actually attracted a lot of criticism from one Girolamo Savonarola, who called for political and spiritual reforms. There is no evidence to suggest that Alexander VI was indeed a reformer, though ironically enough, Savonarola's proposed reforms was the basis for the Counter-Reformation.
The Florentine Forerunner: Girolamo Savonarola (1452–1498)
Girolamo Savonarola condemned the pope’s abuses and elevated the authority of Scripture — all while Luther was only a child.
www.desiringgod.org
You knew nothing about christianity,then.
Holy Mary was venerated from the beginning,and all old churches pray to HER.Only heretics later refused that.
And,Church never claimed that giving money would save somebody soul.
Saints - @King Arts explained it arleady.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
And here are a few examples of the Ortodox reverence for Bogoroditsa, Trojeručica - Wikipedia
The three haned Bogoroditsa created by John of Damascus that is considered the Serbian Orthodox Church's greatest relic.
Our Lady of Kazan - Wikipedia another icon of Bogoroditsa with a precious metal "shirt".
The three haned Bogoroditsa created by John of Damascus that is considered the Serbian Orthodox Church's greatest relic.
Our Lady of Kazan - Wikipedia another icon of Bogoroditsa with a precious metal "shirt".
Poe
Well-known member
King Arts
Well-known member
lol your joking right. Honestly you Protestants should repent for insulting and thinking the mother of god should be treated like low class trash. Stuff like this is why Protestants aren’t followers of Christ. How can you claim to love someone and insult their mother, do you think Jesus is cool with that? He followed the commandments perfectly and honored his father AND mother, who was Mary.
Poe
Well-known member
Jesus Catholics are fucked. FYI not committing idolatry and worshiping someone isn't equal to "treating them like trash."
Where did I insult anyone but Catholics?
Yes I think he insists on it actually
Yes he should honor his mother, not worship her and the bible specifically says not to pray to your ancestors. Mary, however, is no one elses mother. Anyway the only person you should be praying to is the one god.
King Arts
Well-known member
Venerating someone is not idolotry. Veneration is traditional Christianity aka all the groups that have an unbroken line from the apostles aka Orientals, Eastern, and Catholics.
It has two parts the firs is recognizing someone is an awsome good person who is in heaven, and the second is asking them to pray for you.
What is unchristian? Tell me is it unchristian for Americans to respect their soldiers and thank them for their service and be dare I'd say it "worshipful" towards them? What about asking someone at Church to pray for you.
I mean what's the alternative be like Westboro baptist and shit on the dead?
Again @Agent23 said that veneration of Mary and saints is more than just a Catholic thing. And usually protestants shit on traditional Christians yet cozy up to other groups that do insult Mary and say some very offensive lies about her occupation.
You think Jesus wants and is ok with people calling his mom the worst insults a woman could face, but he would be angry at other people respecting her and giving her grand titles based on her relationship with him.
Tell me you protestants get antsy about titles like queen of heaven. But isn't Jesus the king of heaven and earth? Isn't Mary the mother of Jesus Christ? What is the mother of the king usually called. Isn't it a queen?
Again Catholics may go to far, but other traditional Christians don't worship saints, or Mary. Only Jesus who is God should be worshipped. But there is a differance between worship, and veneration/respect.
You're one to talk, given that you don't even know who the one God of Christianity is.
Also, no, Mary was not "venerated" from the beginning. No early orthodox Christian document venerates Mary. The Bible doesn't do it, the Apostolic Fathers don't do it, the early church fathers don't do it.
Acting like saying Mary shouldn't be worshipped like the Roman Catholic Church worships her (and it does worship her) = insulting her is a dishonest, unbiblical lie that Catholics spread. No one is insulting Mary.
Considering the utter ignorance about Catholic theology shown by some here *rolls eyes*
But I expect little else from so-called 'Bible Protestants' who pick and chose what parts of the Bible they follow and thus fall for multiple heresies with great self-righteousness and enthusiasm.
But I expect little else from so-called 'Bible Protestants' who pick and chose what parts of the Bible they follow and thus fall for multiple heresies with great self-righteousness and enthusiasm.
What do you think has been said about Catholic theology here that has been ignorant?
Poe
Well-known member
The level of veneration that catholics entertain is indeed obvious idolatry.
What insult? Please show me the insult anyone here has put forward. You are being hilariously dishonest.
This is a pagan title, full stop.
Nice projection. Protestants don't break multiple commandments on a daily basis as part of their religion and they damn sure don't worship, or treat as biblical doctrine, things that aren't in the bible at all the way Catholics do.
King Arts
Well-known member
Catholics do have problematic doctrines that can lead them into heresy and possibly even full out polytheism.
Immaculate Conception - Wikipedia
Stuff like that is a heresy and takes adoration of Mary to far. But you Protestants take it too far the other way saying that veneration of Mary is wrong and it’s ok to insult her is also beyond the pale.
The fact of the matter is Jesus is the only one without original sin and Mary needed Jesus like everyone else to be saved.
HOWEVER Mary was chosen by God to be the most exalted of women and she did give birth to Jesus Christ who is God. Venerating her is appropriate.
It’s mostly how both historically and in the modern day Protestants shit on Catholics and other traditional Christians who do traditional things like venerating the mother of god. Yet are very friendly towards rabbinic Judaism and still calling them gods chosen people while they call god a bastard born from adultery with a prostitute in the Talmud. You know things like that.
So is the title king of heaven. The ancient Greeks considered the chief of the gods to be king of heaven so did Chinese. Are you really going to pull the stupid “Hitler ate sugar” meme? Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ.
Do you deny Jesus is king over heaven and earth?
So? Listen stop committing idolatry on a book. The Bible did not make Christianity. Christianity the church compiled the Bible. The scripture was not one book but many books before the church decided what was inspired by god and what was not.
Catholics do have problematic doctrines that can lead them into heresy and possibly even full out polytheism.
Immaculate Conception - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Stuff like that is a heresy and takes adoration of Mary to far. But you Protestants take it too far the other way saying that veneration of Mary is wrong and it’s ok to insult her is also beyond the pale.
No one here is insulting Mary.
If by "veneration" you mean treat Mary with the kind of reverence that the Bible teaches is reserved only for God, then no, it's not appropriate.
No, because Jesus is given that title in Holy Scripture. The title "queen" is never ascribed to Mary in Scripture.
Holy Scripture, defined as the Word of God recorded in written form, is God-breathed and authoritative from the moment it is written. Eg, Paul's epistle to the Galatians was inspired from the moment he finished writing it, it didn't depend on the church to "decide" that it was inspired at a later date before becoming inspired.