Cases of a country losing a war but still finding itself in a stronger geopolitical position after the end of the war than before the war?

W

WolfBear

Well-known member
Which cases were there of a country losing a war but still finding itself in a stronger geopolitical situation after the end of the war than before the war? I can think of Germany after the end of World War I, when it was in a stronger geopolitical position after the end of the war than before the start of the war due to the fact that Russia experienced a revolution and went Bolshevik in the middle of WWI. While this was obviously extremely bad for Russians themselves, it was actually quite good for Germany since before the war Germany was encircled by the Franco-Russian alliance whereas after the war this was no longer a problem due to the termination of this alliance (and since Czechoslovakia and Poland simply couldn't compare to Russia). Since Bolshevik Russia was an international pariah, it was difficult for it to find any allies, and it actually found common cause with Germany in revising the post-World War I peace settlement, which was favorable to neither Germany nor Russia.

Anyway, which additional examples of this can you think of?
 
Another thing worth mentioning here: Before WWI, there were primarily three large countries in Central Europe: Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Russia; but after the end of WWI, there was one large country (Germany) and a whole bunch of medium-sized and small countries:

b80d54af23201779b13254dc8cac1e92c8a571aa.webp
 
Zachowon said:
Some may look at 1812.
Technically a draw, it led to the US changing a lot of things around
Click to expand...
Arguably Britain was in a better position after 1776.

It got rid of some troublesome colonials and aquired some profitable territories.

(No one get their panties in a bunch. From the British perspective they were actually in a stronger position geopolitically)
 
edgeworthy said:
Arguably Britain was in a better position after 1776.

It got rid of some troublesome colonials and aquired some profitable territories.

(No one get their panties in a bunch. From the British perspective they were actually in a stronger position geopolitically)
Click to expand...
True.
Pride hurting though
 
Japan after WWII. The lost completely with their entire government being rebuilt to suite the needs of the victors and that ended up with them becoming a major economic power because of it.

Zachowon said:
Some may look at 1812.
Click to expand...
That only looks like anything other than a clear US victory if you consider a war to only be a series of battles. After the war of 1812, the Brittish stopped enslaving US sailors, which is the main goal of the war.
 
Doomsought said:
Japan after WWII. The lost completely with their entire government being rebuilt to suite the needs of the victors and that ended up with them becoming a major economic power because of it.


That only looks like anything other than a clear US victory if you consider a war to only be a series of battles. After the war of 1812, the Brittish stopped enslaving US sailors, which is the main goal of the war.
Click to expand...

But Japan ended up losing Korea, Taiwan, and Manchuria, all of which it controlled before the war. It also lost all hope of becoming a separate civilizational space (other than for anime) and instead became a part of the American Empire.

The US also wanted to conquer Canada in the War of 1812 and failed miserably at doing this, no?
 
Aldarion said:
Serbia in literally every war ever. Lost the war, eventually won the war thanks to allies, gained everything they wanted.
Click to expand...

And eventually ended up losing most of their gains.

BTW, France lost the 1940 campaign but still emerged a victor in World War II as a result of the combined efforts of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. France even got rewarded for this victory with a permanent UN Security Council seat. And France likely lost much less lives than would have been the case had it not lost the 1940 campaign and instead personally been compelled to take the war/fight all of the way up to Berlin.
 
Ancient Rome.
The early Roman Republic grew up in the shadow of an older and more powerful polity: the Etruscans.
Then a bunch of arrogant obnoxious Frenchies came and sacked the place. "Vae Victis" etc..

But... once the Gauls had gone, the Romans found that the Etruscans had been wiped out. They vanish from history. While Rome was able to build back stronger, eventually becoming a huge empire.
 
Last edited:
Egypt in 1973. They launched a surprise attack against Israel (along with Syria) with the goal of retaking the Sini peninsula. After the first few days of the war where the IAF proven unable to repeat their victories of the six day war, the IDF was forced to give ground in the Sini and started a large scale retreat. The Egyptians then advanced too far away from their air defenses, and the Israelis counter attacked, destroying or capturing a majority of the Egyptian army in the Sini. Then they started counter attacking across the Suez and advanced on the city of Suez, and began working their way towards the outskirts of Cairo itself. At that point the US and Soviets forced a ceasefire.

The Egyptians still had some functional military units in the Sini, but they were on the wrong side for defending Suez city or Cairo, and couldn't cross back. Militarily, it was a rather solid defeat for the Egyptians. Yet, in the negotiations following the war, Egypt ended up getting the entire Sini back just like they wanted in exchange for a permanent peace treaty with Israel. So, in spite of losing the war on the field, Egypt ultimately achieved their war aim and 'won' the war.
 
Midnighter13 said:
Egypt in 1973. They launched a surprise attack against Israel (along with Syria) with the goal of retaking the Sini peninsula. After the first few days of the war where the IAF proven unable to repeat their victories of the six day war, the IDF was forced to give ground in the Sini and started a large scale retreat. The Egyptians then advanced too far away from their air defenses, and the Israelis counter attacked, destroying or capturing a majority of the Egyptian army in the Sini. Then they started counter attacking across the Suez and advanced on the city of Suez, and began working their way towards the outskirts of Cairo itself. At that point the US and Soviets forced a ceasefire.

The Egyptians still had some functional military units in the Sini, but they were on the wrong side for defending Suez city or Cairo, and couldn't cross back. Militarily, it was a rather solid defeat for the Egyptians. Yet, in the negotiations following the war, Egypt ended up getting the entire Sini back just like they wanted in exchange for a permanent peace treaty with Israel. So, in spite of losing the war on the field, Egypt ultimately achieved their war aim and 'won' the war.
Click to expand...

Yep. Though IMHO Egypt should have gotten Gaza back as well since Gaza would have been better-managed under the rule of the Neo-Pharaohs than under the rule of Hamas.
 
The Philippines.

They lost to the US in 1902. Afterwards they had "big brother" lurking in the background and preventing the British and Japanese from just waltzing in unopposed.

The US did decolonization correctly by making sure that the Philippines had a stable government first.

Philippine independence from the US was supposed to happen in 1944 but got delayed to July 4, 1946 by WWII.

Puerto Rico is another one from the Spanish-American War. They're still a US territory. Statehood and independence are both on the table. It's merely a matter of them deciding which they'd prefer and convincing Congress to stop bickering long enough to say "yes".
 
Last edited:
WolfBear said:
Yep. Though IMHO Egypt should have gotten Gaza back as well since Gaza would have been better-managed under the rule of the Neo-Pharaohs than under the rule of Hamas.
Click to expand...
The Israelis actually wanted the Egyptians to take Gaza, the Egyptians refused. The biggest reason the Palestinian issue exists in the first place is because the nations of the Arab League (Egypt included) went out of their way to create a permanent population of stateless refugees. It was a matter of policy (still enforced to this day) that Palestinians are not granted citizenship in countries belonging to the Arab League, even when they've been living in countries like Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt (when Jordan and Egypt controlled the West Bank and Gaza respectively prior to 1967) for over four generations now.
 
WolfBear said:
Was Britain really more of a threat to the US before this war than it was after this war?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Before the war the British thought they could retake the United States. After the war they pretty much decided to leave all of the Americas they didn't already posess alone and to their own devices.

During the war the British Admiralty issued orders to their frigate captains which basically amounted to "Do not engage an American frigate unless you outnumber it at least 3:1 or there is a ship of the line present."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top