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Book Club Thread 2: Sword Diplomacy

What Shall We Read This Month?

  • The Utterly Uninteresting and Unadventurous Tales of Fred, the Vampire Accountan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Illusion

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Sword Diplomacy

    Votes: 5 50.0%
  • Godborn

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • Berserker

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .

Ixian

Well-known member
I've finished.

Its decent, reminds me a lot of the Artemis Foul books, but the abused girlfriend and gay detective characters aren't as interesting or well detailed as they could have been. The humor was good, and the fish out of water angle is always funny. Overall an enjoyable read, I'd give it a 7/10.
 
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Terthna

Professional Lurker
I'm having trouble getting into it, personally. It's the opposite problem I had with the first book; that one I liked the premise, but the execution was awful. This one? I'm too focused on the fact that I don't like the premise (I usually find the "fish out of water" joke to be cringeworthy) to be able to tell if the execution is good or not; and keeping myself from skimming through everything feels like pulling teeth. I might have to wait until I'm in the right mood to read this thing properly.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Nearly finished, standing at 78% today.

This author is really bad at foreshadowing, by which I mean he beats the reader over the head with a clue-by-four. Yes, the detective is sensitive to magic, we get it. Yes, the Demon Overlords are using some kind of supernatural power, we get it. Was the actual author the ROU Subtlety is For When You Don't Have Enough Ammunition or something?

The supporting cast really needs fleshing out. Grace has the skeleton of a very nice character build and she's developed a believable voice, I especially appreciate how he's built up her critical flaw of rationalizing that what she wants must be true, such as her repeated claims that Benny will "get bored" and leave her alone if she ignores him enough. The detective continues to be wooden. There's some entertainment value out of his trying to figure out exactly what the heck Zaena's magic is but since we already know, this is fairly limited and the joke goes on too long. It's also really, really hard for me to buy that he's willing to go with Zaena's plan to use him as a decoy while she does all the wetwork at the safehouse, there's just no way he should buy that line.

I am glad Carl and Zaena started working together after just a few meetings rather than it being too drawn out. Zaena's plan of first contacting him by phone and trying to build trust from there was a sound escalation that didn't overstay its welcome.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Alright, finished it last night.

Definite pacing issues. The "climax" was pretty much a nothingburger because Zaena was completely immune to everything the Demon Overlords could throw at her and it happened way too early (around three-quarters of the way through rather than 90%) with a slog of infodumps afterward where they don't belong. The bad pacing also meant the reveals were pretty sad, we knew the detective was gay around twenty chapters before the big reveal at the end and I don't think anybody was surprised at finding out the leader of the Demon Overlords was an elf with a magic item by the time that got shown. I would have been far more impressed if he was actually a fairy, revealing that Zaena wasn't as well informed about magical creatures as she thought and turning her hours of watching of Fascinating Fairy Secrets on The History Channel into subtle foreshadowing. Then he finishes off by liberally scattering a big pile of plot hooks for his sequelitis that had nothing to do with the story we just read.

This is really typical of modern writing, where nobody wants to finish their story and instead everything is about milking one more drop out of that dead horse and extending things to ever-more books. I hope we get an older, more classic story next month that has a better flow to it. Looking at the author's bibliography it's apparent he subscribes to the modern tendency to write two dozen books on the same plotline rather than self-contained stories. Plot Hooks for a sequel need to be a bit better placed that in the last section where they're extremely obvious.

Overall this wasn't a bad story but could have been better. It did avoid some hurdles of its genre, and has some promise, but had wooden characters, lousy pacing, and lacks an internal plot compared with being just setup for the next story.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
I had trouble getting into this one as well. I'm pretty sure it was b/c I really had no attachment to our main character till at least 1/2 way through the book. The support characters were more appealing to me.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Started reading the Tales of Fred the Vampire Accountant...here's my favorite bit so far...

“It was a good deal all around. The supernatural creatures wanted a country where they had rights as citizens, and the founders of the country needed some way to drive back the superior numbers and might of the English.”

“Are you telling me that vampires and werewolves are the reason America won the Revolutionary War?” I asked, dumbfounded.

“No, I’m saying America somehow managed to pull it out thanks to the French,” Krystal scoffed.

There was a beat of silence, then Albert said: “You know, when you think about it, her version makes a lot more sense.”

I shook my head. “The things you think you know.”
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
As I said, I am done as well.
Personally I liked Zaena's shenanigans and the idea of Reverse-Isekaiing has always been of interest to me, so the fish out of water premise didn't annoy me as much as it did some others.
Initially her mental monologue and her actions when she just emerged on the beach were a bit annoying and dare I say overdone, but overall she grew on me as a character pretty rapidly.
Overall we had a few over-used cliches and real story development basically petered off to nothing at some point, with the subplot involving the ex-boyfriend Triad killer and the gay cop were quite underwhelming.

Overall I enjoyed this a hell of a lot more than the previos one and I'd give it 6.5/10 or maybe 7.5/10.

However, as people have mentioned already, the book, probably the series, too, as there are quite a few more books in it, suffers from some bad pacing and the author's attempt to stretch things out and add more books to it.

The writing style, was better than what we got in Jake's magical market and I would say pretty decent overall, and at least we did not get 4 books crammed into one.This felt like just part of a book, with the action petering out towards the end, and it all turning out to be set up for the sequel(s).

I think that part of the reason for all the repetitive info dumps and such might be the fact that this was written for modern audiences, with short attention spans.

Never the less I think that Zaena's actions and thoughts were pretty much in line with what somebody in her position would do and think.
The other characters, though, were far less interesting, I'd even say dull and excessively cliched, like the hard-boiled cop who really couldn't make me feel any enthusiasm or the Chinese would be social worker, but I saw them as mostly props to enhance the Elf Princess's story.

I might look into the next book of the series, but I won't be recommending it on here.

BTW, I am reading the first Berserker collection, and while I enjoyed Sword Diplomacy I can not stop myself from thinking that overall that classic was the better, more relevant, book.
And this, as well, more smexy elves and an outright isekai protagonist getting it on. :D

I am thinking of starting on Tales of Fred the Vampire Accountant, too.

In any case, @Bear Ribs, since it looks like a lot of us have finished maybe we can start on another book or commence with voting for the next one earlier?
 

Argent

Well-known member
So I finshed and here are some quick thoughs with more later.

Zaena is a character made mainly of tropes. She acts like you basic fantasy warrior along with princess traveling the world. I basically new how she would act after the frist couple of chapters honor and all.

Grace is acutally my favorite character and I think has the most interesting background. From the parents wanting her to be a doctor to the ex gang boyfriend.

Overall the story technical aspects are decent. No massive grammar or spelling errors that plague so many self or small er published books. The action scenes are serviceable and the conversations flow fairly well. There are some short sentences that break up the flow but overall once you start reading the story is easy enough to get into.

The story was written as part of a much larger series and it shows. This is mainly a set up for the other books with the larger plot of saving her race. The books true plotline is the drama of the Garce and her ex while setting up Zaena's future adventures.

This type of story has become more common. You see it a lot with fanfics and books with lose editorial control. They focus more on the mundane and small stuff to pad out the books.


I know people did not like the fish out of water but personally that was one of the bigger draws for me. You actually have to different ways she stands out. First is being an elf and only have a limited amount of knowledge about the world. The second is one that I have personally seen before. A rich person finding out that things like bills and money matter to most people. Overall the daytime t.v. quotes and simple mistakes make this one of the better done parts of the book. I do have to say that the not knowing she is hot did get a bit old by the time Zaena hit Chinatown.

The background and world building was fairly weak. It 2as enough to establish Zaena's reason for traveling. But weak on details and little bit background dropped into the story. I would be interested in seeing a bit more of the enclaves and think that the story should have started there instead of a raft in the ocean.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
In any case, @Bear Ribs, since it looks like a lot of us have finished maybe we can start on another book or commence with voting for the next one earlier?
Naw, we've already asked people about reading more books each month and the group wasn't on board with that. Anyway I'm in several other book clubs and my next one will start this week, I can't really commit to too many books a month here. One reason I wanted to bump ours up to start the first week of the month was so it wouldn't be the same weeks as my other book clubs.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Naw, we've already asked people about reading more books each month and the group wasn't on board with that. Anyway I'm in several other book clubs and my next one will start this week, I can't really commit to too many books a month here. One reason I wanted to bump ours up to start the first week of the month was so it wouldn't be the same weeks as my other book clubs.
Yeah, sure, I was thinking about starting the voting early, not the reading.
 

Argent

Well-known member
So sadly it looks like this months book was a bit of a disappointment and did not grab people. Overall I found it to be a decent time waster but not something I would reread. I would maybe read the rest of series when traveling.

I think the main reasons is that Sword Diplomacy is kind of paint by numbers for the plot and major characters. It is simalr to a harlequin romance novel or a Hallmark movie. A bog standard book that you know what you are getting before you even read it.

Even saying that there are some interesting bits there. Grace is an interesting character with a good backstory. The history of the elfs is acutally interesting even if it is mainly ignored. I like how there are hits of them being behind most of the legendary cites or lost civilizations.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
So sadly it looks like this months book was a bit of a disappointment and did not grab people. Overall I found it to be a decent time waster but not something I would reread. I would maybe read the rest of series when traveling.

I think the main reasons is that Sword Diplomacy is kind of paint by numbers for the plot and major characters. It is simalr to a harlequin romance novel or a Hallmark movie. A bog standard book that you know what you are getting before you even read it.

Even saying that there are some interesting bits there. Grace is an interesting character with a good backstory. The history of the elfs is acutally interesting even if it is mainly ignored. I like how there are hits of them being behind most of the legendary cites or lost civilizations.
Yeah, well blame me, I wanted something like the first book we read, but better.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
So sadly it looks like this months book was a bit of a disappointment and did not grab people. Overall I found it to be a decent time waster but not something I would reread. I would maybe read the rest of series when traveling.
We've gotten off to a bit of a rocky start and I'm of the opinion it was a mistake to go for recently written books instead of things that have held up a few years and shown some legs. I intend to nominate a few oldies for a while and see if that gets better results.

In general, I agree with your assessment, Sword Diplomacy had nothing particularly wrong or offensive and was decently written but, ultimately, it was mostly stock characters and stock plots. I think the author spent too much time on TV Tropes and tried to incorporate their "wisdom" into his writing, which is a trap many modern authors fall into. TV Tropes is literally the worst thing you can use as a guide because the stuff that they call a trope is what everybody else calls a stereotype/cliche. Hey look! There's a trope about a ferris wheel malfunctioning and the hero saving the day! Clearly putting this in will make my superhero story original and riveting because there hasn't been fifteen thousand ferris wheel saves that were the reason it got put on the site in the first place!

If it's in TV Tropes, it's because it's already been done to death, otherwise they wouldn't decide it was a trope. Further TV Tropes generally fails to explain why and how a trope works, so you wind up only using a superficial appearance rather the substance of storytelling. F'rex they have a trope that's entirely "The character uses a whip." TV Tropes says that women using whips are usually clad in leather, and guys are generally officers or evil ringmasters. Okay, how does that influence your storytelling? What is the symbolism of the whip, how does the imagery of a whip make a character distinct from one with an axe? They got nothing, and also no explanation for why Simon Belmont and Indiana Jones are going around with whips because they're looking purely at the appearance of it and don't understand the deeper symbolism involved.



If you're wondering, whips are associated with speed and agility. Any hero with a whip will always be a fast bugger who relies on finesse instead of brute strength. Whips are also associated with acrobatics, with grabbing things at range and with swinging around, further emphasizing the speed and flexibility of a character compared with other weapons. Due to the association with speed, whips are always used by impetuous and/or reckless characters. Depending on the writing, either this will turn out to be a fatal flaw (many villains with whips foolishly antagonize something much stronger and tougher than they are in a fit of rage, and their speed avails them not) or a big advantage in the case of a hero who makes up his plans as he goes and is more flexible than other, less whip-using villains who can't adapt to the whip-wielding hero's speedy changes in tactics. Simon Belmont and Indiana Jones both use whips because they are fast, agile, and up against enemies far stronger than they are that have to be outmaneuvered and outwitted rather than met by brute force, so the symbolism works for them in spite of TV Trope's superficial understanding of whips.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
I got the Vampire Accountant book on Kindle and read it. It's fun. A bit episodic, but that makes it easier to read in chunks. I definitely recommend it for light reading.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I got the Vampire Accountant book on Kindle and read it. It's fun. A bit episodic, but that makes it easier to read in chunks. I definitely recommend it for light reading.
Read that one, too, I'd say it is at best as good as Sword Diplomacy, the character starts off interesting, but the episodic format leaves much to be desired, there were bits and pieces of politically correct crap like the OP girfriend and there was too much modern nonsense and hypster stuff piled in on top of the thing.
It was nowhere near as bad as Jake, and at best maybe as good as Sword Diplomacy.

We've gotten off to a bit of a rocky start and I'm of the opinion it was a mistake to go for recently written books instead of things that have held up a few years and shown some legs. I intend to nominate a few oldies for a while and see if that gets better results.
This happens, and I would agree with you that maybe we should focus on older stuff with less modern garbage thrown in it, like the desire to produce infinite numbers of doorstops, excessive pandering, overly-quirky and forced dialogue, social media pandering/written by committee feel and above all, no decent editing to begin with.

In general, I agree with your assessment, Sword Diplomacy had nothing particularly wrong or offensive and was decently written but, ultimately, it was mostly stock characters and stock plots. I think the author spent too much time on TV Tropes and tried to incorporate their "wisdom" into his writing, which is a trap many modern authors fall into. TV Tropes is literally the worst thing you can use as a guide because the stuff that they call a trope is what everybody else calls a stereotype/cliche. Hey look! There's a trope about a ferris wheel malfunctioning and the hero saving the day! Clearly putting this in will make my superhero story original and riveting because there hasn't been fifteen thousand ferris wheel saves that were the reason it got put on the site in the first place!
More like social media but I agree.
It was not great, not terrible, either.

If it's in TV Tropes, it's because it's already been done to death, otherwise they wouldn't decide it was a trope. Further TV Tropes generally fails to explain why and how a trope works, so you wind up only using a superficial appearance rather the substance of storytelling. F'rex they have a trope that's entirely "The character uses a whip." TV Tropes says that women using whips are usually clad in leather, and guys are generally officers or evil ringmasters. Okay, how does that influence your storytelling? What is the symbolism of the whip, how does the imagery of a whip make a character distinct from one with an axe? They got nothing, and also no explanation for why Simon Belmont and Indiana Jones are going around with whips because they're looking purely at the appearance of it and don't understand the deeper symbolism involved.


If you're wondering, whips are associated with speed and agility. Any hero with a whip will always be a fast bugger who relies on finesse instead of brute strength. Whips are also associated with acrobatics, with grabbing things at range and with swinging around, further emphasizing the speed and flexibility of a character compared with other weapons. Due to the association with speed, whips are always used by impetuous and/or reckless characters. Depending on the writing, either this will turn out to be a fatal flaw (many villains with whips foolishly antagonize something much stronger and tougher than they are in a fit of rage, and their speed avails them not) or a big advantage in the case of a hero who makes up his plans as he goes and is more flexible than other, less whip-using villains who can't adapt to the whip-wielding hero's speedy changes in tactics. Simon Belmont and Indiana Jones both use whips because they are fast, agile, and up against enemies far stronger than they are that have to be outmaneuvered and outwitted rather than met by brute force, so the symbolism works for them in spite of TV Trope's superficial understanding of whips.
Ahem, maybe the whip and the leather can be there for the fan service effect.

To be honest, most new books have been a huge disappointment to me, too, but I don't share your pessimism, the first books were entertaining to the majority, and we had fun talking about them, dissecting them and lampooning them.

Not great, not terrible, either.

If you wish we can put in a theme or a prerequisite for each month, like no Social media age books being nominated or only works by SF&F Grand Masters ?

The thing is that a lot of us have read the classics and we want new content, and most of the new content is shit.[/QUOTE]
 
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Argent

Well-known member
Yeah, well blame me, I wanted something like the first book we read, but better.

Eh I voted for it and made it a tie. It is not like it was horrible just kind of boring with only some interesting bits.


Urban Fantasy is one of my favorites. But I was hoping that it was a bit more Noir feel to it from the cover and description.


If it's in TV Tropes, it's because it's already been done to death, otherwise they wouldn't decide it was a trope. Further TV Tropes generally fails to explain why and how a trope works, so you wind up only using a superficial appearance rather the substance of storytelling.

I do agree with pretty much everything you said. But a character's look should help tell you about them. The thing with whips can be taken different was. A women with a whip in leather leads to painting them as S and M. But put that same character in some kakis and it paints them as an adventurer. While you are not wrong about a character with a whip as a weapon os more agile then a knight. A decent author will use visual clues or descriptions to impart history or story lines. The trick is that authors need to know the trops and how they combine while still having interesting characters. To many just use a few tropes and call it done.
 

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