Movies Birds of Prey (February 7th 2020)

Husky_Khan

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
So we've all seen the trailers. I'm pretty ambivalent on it. Maybe if it wasn't for the fact that Suicide Squad was such a barely average movie that tried to cram in fifty storylines I'd be more interested in this, but it does seem a lot like that film with a multitude of characters, several who aren't really even in the core of the Birds of Prey lineup (and missing other ones) as well as adding Harley Quinn as the main star (she was popular and still well received it seems even in the Suicide Squad film). But honestly, just like with that Will Smith action movie that came out a while ago, the only reason I might wanna see this movie is to see Mary Elizabeth Winstead in an action role.

Not that it was enough to convince me to see the other movie in theaters because of her, but still...

I mean looking at the cast of characters...

Birds-of-Prey-Movie-Trailer-Cast.jpg


If you laid that picture in front of me and said.... these are comic book characters... but didn't tell me the movie... I would have no idea who ANY of these ladies should be. Well except maybe Harley Quinn.

When I saw the trailer... I actually had to go in slow motion when they laid out all of the names because I had no idea which character was supposed to be which. The only one who I think was well cast (and will do a fine job in the role besides Margot Robbie) is Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Huntress... at least that character design seems to be in the same ballpark.

And just FYI... from left to right... it's Renee Montoya, Huntress, Harley Quinn, Cassandra Cain and Black Canary.

And for reference... the most famous Birds of Prey comic book cover probably.

1703989-birds_of_prey__1999__059.jpeg

It's weird seeing Renee Montoya going to brawl wearing a tied off button up shirt showing off her (very nice I'm sure) midriff. I hope there's an explanation for why she brought brass knuckles to an anything fight as we main weapon. But now I'm just nitpicking, I actually have nothing against Montoya's actress, Rosie Perez. Same with the others... even though I have no idea who the two actresses on the left are actually.

Like... what is even going on with Cassandra Cain. Maybe it'll be explained in the story but AFAIK most comic incarnations of Cassandra Cain are of a pretty slender Asian teenager. Also one who, due to her very special upbringing as a living weapon, had several personality problems and quirks... like being unable to speak, using violence and martial arts as her main way of communication and showing a general martial stoicism and detachment/lack of emotional development that was contrasted sharply with actual bursts of emotion during particularly stressful times. She was also an extremely driven and narrowly focused individual. Kind of like the complete opposite of.. Harley Quinn. Plus I don't even know what she is wearing.

But whatever.

Then there's Black Canary.

Yeah I don't even know where to begin. The nose ring. The baseball bat. Her entire costume. It's all like overbearingly urban and gaudy. Black Canary is someone who... sure... you can cast a person of whatever racial background I suppose. But they decided to just throw out everything else about the character as well at least in the design.

Also no sight of Oracle/Batgirl/Barbara Gordon who was... kind of a third of the team. Not sure if Cheshire or Catwoman or Lady Shiva will show up.

So in character design I give this a two out of five from the picture... or is it one out of three since only two of the comics Birds of Prey are actually in this film?

I do like that Harley Quinn actually drops in a bit of her psychiatric background in the trailer though.

Probably won't give it a watch unless the word of mouth/reviews is exceptionally good or high. I feel like they decided to look at Suicide Squad, see that one of the few things that worked was Harley Quinn's character and just go crazy with that idea.
 
Wow, none of them are really HOT

Then again, this is partially why I prefer superhero comics & cartoons to Live-Action TV & Movies, I know it's hard to get ladies with those comic book proportions and beauty, but yeah....the guys mostly look better and I'm not even gay

Also, when you said who they were......goddamnit, their comic book counterparts are MUCH hotter to look at, hell I'm pretty sure Renee Montoya doesn't look like she's in her forties

They're not even wearing costumes!
 
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CarlManvers2019 said:
Wow, none of them are really HOT

Then again, this is partially why I prefer superhero comics & cartoons to Live-Action TV & Movies, I know it's hard to get ladies with those comic book proportions and beauty, but yeah....the guys mostly look better and I'm not even gay

Also, when you said who they were......goddamnit, their comic book counterparts are MUCH hotter to look at, hell I'm pretty sure Renee Montoya doesn't look like she's in her forties

They're not even wearing costumes!
Click to expand...

I.... *facepalm*

Moving on... wait, no, not moving on, I'm saying this.

Carl, I get the whole concern about artists showing female characters as little more than males with feminine facial structure or hair (and sometimes not even then) out of a perceived need to counter-balance the years of T&A cheesecake that dominated the industry. But if you consider all five of those actresses "not really hot" it makes me wonder just what kind of impossible standard you've set with your expectations of female beauty and attractiveness. Maybe you need to stop reading comic books and manga and start acquainting yourself with what women actually look like.


As for the movie itself, I fucking hate what I see, and I never saw Suicide Squad, and I'm also fucking tired of the fetishization and glorification of Dr. Harleen Quinzel's deep psychiatric problems that destroyed her career and, subjectively speaking, her life. Harley's a tragic character, not fucking female Deadpool.

I mention the Merc With A Mouth because it feels like DC is trying to push Harley as their Deadpool. Not an exact copy, but the same kind of overly-violent black comedy.

The Birds of Prey themselves? Yeah, the classic trio is Huntress and Black Canary with Oracle on comms/overwatch, with various guest-star female heroines (and even villains, see Lady Shiva's role in Simone's "Sensei and Student" story arc). But the book's added members since then. Towards the end of Simone's run they had extra characters like Lady Blackhawk, Gypsy, and Misfit. Even Kate Spencer aka Manhunter was on the team briefly, as was Big Barda IIRC.

Then the New 52 reboot altered Babs Gordon's backstory so that she recovered from the events of "The Killing Joke", returning control of her legs to her and seeing Simone writing a Batgirl comic. BoP continued on with her relegated, IIRC, to guest-character role occasionally. So I understand the movie not employing her, and at least all of the other characters shown have been on the BoP team at one time or another (I'm pretty sure Renee had a stint while she was the Question, and even before becoming Orphan Cassie Cain had links to Barbara Gordon - unsurprising since she was Batgirl at one point - and thus showed up in Birds of Prey occasionally).

It's not the lineup I'm upset with. It's the designs and the use of the characters in question.

Maybe I'll rent the movie on Redbox or something for train wreck effect, but I don't think I'll be seeing it in theaters.
 
CarlManvers2019 said:
@Big Steve
Still think they could have gone with actors with better looks

Scarlett Johansen looks to actually work out and is attractive
Click to expand...

Ya because a Big name in MCU that has a new movie coming out is going to jump to D.C.


Overall I am going to wait for the reviews before I decide to see it. The preview looks good and jokes were decent. But overall the only D.C. movies I liked was Wonder women. Suicide Squad and Justice League being meh follow by a bunch of failure.. I know people liked Aquaman a lot but I found the movie boring and just didn't really care for it.

I am hopeful that the movie is decent because I do like some of the cast and they picked some decent D.C. villains from what I have read.
 
Argent said:
Ya because a Big name in MCU that has a new movie coming out is going to jump to D.C.
Click to expand...

Not what I meant, I meant that even if they’re not comicbook proportions, women who are actually attractive do exist

And probably would be even more liked by the Chinese for one
 
Yeah if you're not going to have them wearing their costumes... or something reminiscent of their costumes... might as well dress them in something... I dunno… practical or of utility. But instead they're just wearing costumes... bad skurban costumes.

Also Rosie Perez is like 55... so saying she looks like she's in her forties is complimentary.

But I agree on Renee Montoya's age. She was literally a rookie cop in her first appearance and the evolution of her character went from rookie cop and progressing up through the ranks to be a Detective and veteran and everything and then she became a superhero all on her own. Here though... nope... already some grizzled cop or something whatever... whose dressing... in a very un-Detective manner for reasons I cannot fathom. They really missed the whole point of Renee Montoya's entire character arc as something rarer in comics... of an actual growth and maturation of a comic book character with legitimate age progression. It's a core part of her character.
 
Honestly, the costumes those three superheroes already cover much in-universe, especially Huntress who got a more modest redesign that stuck or Black Canary’s early New52 redesign that looked to have something metal in the place of fishnets

Could have used the color schemes, but nope

As you said, suburban.....and pretty much nothing that’d make you think of the comic characters

Going on about practicality and realism and modesty aside, I’m not sure which demographic is supposed to like that look specifically or relate to it

Also, I think there’s one problem, I don’t think the guys making it are such dedicated fans of the comics yo begin with
 
I think the grungy look is supposed to tie in with Harley, since let's face it, this entire movie feels like it is centered on Harley and they tossed in the BoP (although it could very well be that studio suits forced Harley into a BoP movie for popularity reasons).

And it all goes into how the DCCU is still, frankly, sucking. They keep wanting to make these changes to the feel and presentation of these characters in a desperate attempt to make their movies feel different from the MCU. Because God forbid you recognize success and try to adapt it to your own ends. No, let's make crap so we can say we're doing something "unique".

Oh well, at least Wonder Woman '84 is out this year and actually looks good.


Oh, and for nostalgia purposes.
 
Huntress is, I think, the only character in that lineup I ever had even vague interest in (and I'm pretty sure from the 90s Justice League stuff where she showed up, like, twice? Maybe?) and...Well, her slight bit in trailers actually looks interesting to me. But the rest kind've distances me (except the glam-rock appearance of some stuff...I will admit to having a weakness for that).

Perhaps what distances me the most is Quinn. I dislike everything about Harley Quinn's incarnation in these movies. It's all the 'fluff' and 'tee-hee so crazy!' of the character without any of the 'by the way she's a broken, insane person' depth. As @Big Steve said--they apparently wanted 'female Deadpool', and she's about the closest analogue DC has in its universe on the surface so they sanded her down into the role. But she's decidedly not supposed to be 'female Deadpool' and trying to slot her in as that is...weird, at best.
 
Birds of Prey came out tonight. I probably won't see it unless friends wanna drag me along. Still I have reservations...

For some reason despite the violent themes of this film relating to mental illness, corruption and crime, female empowerment, homelessness, child exploitation and the normalization of violence through a pop culture veneer there hasn't been a barrage of news articles fearmongering about potential violence taking place at these theaters.
 
Husky_Khan said:
Birds of Prey came out tonight. I probably won't see it unless friends wanna drag me along. Still I have reservations...

For some reason despite the violent themes of this film relating to mental illness, corruption and crime, female empowerment, homelessness, child exploitation and the normalization of violence through a pop culture veneer there hasn't been a barrage of news articles fearmongering about potential violence taking place at these theaters.
Click to expand...
Anything that includes "female empowerment" as a theme is immune to criticism; anyone who tries is automatically a sexist. You should know that by now.
 
Husky_Khan said:
Birds of Prey came out tonight. I probably won't see it unless friends wanna drag me along. Still I have reservations...

For some reason despite the violent themes of this film relating to mental illness, corruption and crime, female empowerment, homelessness, child exploitation and the normalization of violence through a pop culture veneer there hasn't been a barrage of news articles fearmongering about potential violence taking place at these theaters.
Click to expand...

I have plans to see it next week so I will leave a post about it. But so far the reviews have been standard so while not a hit I bet it will be worth a watch for the superhero fan.
 
deadline.com

How ‘Birds Of Prey’ Went Astray With $33M+ Opening – Sunday Final

Warner Bros' DC is hitting a pothole in the road with Birds of Prey, which is on its way to a $33.8 million domestic opening.
deadline.com deadline.com

Not really surprising I suppose. It certainly didn't have the same amount of buzz that Suicide Squad had. I personally never heard anyone even talking about it or anything in general unlike other films like Joker or the latest Star Wars.
 
Husky_Khan said:
deadline.com

How ‘Birds Of Prey’ Went Astray With $33M+ Opening – Sunday Final

Warner Bros' DC is hitting a pothole in the road with Birds of Prey, which is on its way to a $33.8 million domestic opening.
deadline.com deadline.com

Not really surprising I suppose. It certainly didn't have the same amount of buzz that Suicide Squad had. I personally never heard anyone even talking about it or anything in general unlike other films like Joker or the latest Star Wars.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have the buzz like you said.

Not to mention that Birds of Prey are mainly unknown outside of comic fans. So unless you get a smash hit like the frist Guardians of the Galaxy it is a hard push to rake in the cash. That is the main reason they pushed Harley so hard as the main charater in the ads. She is the face and a well known charater outside of DC fans.

There is also the fact that this is a slow movie time. May though August along Thanksgiving and Christmas are for the big releases in general. So while you do get hits and big movies outside that time the studios tend to save their ad budgets for summer blockbusters and holiday movies instead.

I still plan on seeing and it has gotten decent reviews for the most part. So less a flop like Sucide Squad and more a weak showing like Docotr Strange.
 
Friend semi-dragged me to watch Birds of Prey earlier today after some bargaining on my part.

It wasn't very good.

The only thing that was unquestionably good was the acting. But I mean... they're all good actors and actresses... and I feel like almost every major big budget feature is well acted. It didn't do anything to salvage this movie however because everything else was just mediocre... at best.

Starting off, none of the characters, with the exception of Huntress/Helena Bertinelli, was particularly intelligent or acted smart. And not like... typical plot or character induced stupidity... it was like... I'm not sure how any of these people are not dead or imprisoned after like fifteen minutes of existing in this presumably cutt-throat Gotham Underworld. Harley Quinn especially... she's so out there and flamboyant and easy to find (and is found) the fact that she's somehow alive for more then five minutes is an egregious plot hole.

That goes for the rest of the characters as well. There's a horrible affliction in non-crime films in which the criminals and crimelords are often one part eccentric and one part stupid... Ewan McGregor's Black Mask... is a very unintelligent character. Is everyone just reading notes off of Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger's toilet paper for tips or something in super criminal acting? The Black Mask and his right hand man, Mr. Zsasz... they're supposed to be somewhat menacing and they tried... oh they tried to be... but it felt like false, dumb bravado. Oh sure... they were sadistic and cruel but I never thought of them as being cerebral enough to be truly intimidating.

Cassandra Cain... just a name. The only thing she has in common with the Cassandra Cain version is that they're both young Asian females. Nothing else is derived from the comics. I didn't find her character particularly interesting either. She spent most of their time as a foul mouthed, twelve year old

Black Canary... pretty meh. Again... nothing stood out to me about her character.

Some people might dig that super loud urban glam type of costumes everyone was apparently wearing, not me. It was literally distracting for me and left me eyerolling. In some parts I felt like I was watching a Gwen Stefani video. In order to display Harley Quinn's psychosis... this was this super random singing interlude that really took me out of the movie as well. I'm saying this now because it's so random and ill fitting I have no idea where else to mention it.

The only character who was remotely interesting to me was Mary Elizabeth Winstead's Huntress character. Like she had some bit of competence around her. The costume design wasn't overly terrible. She seemed generally useful and despite her abbreviated backstory, it was the most credible and developed. Like I actually found her interesting and was wishing there was some sort of... I dunno… BIRDS OF PREY movie that could focus on developing her character. Oh well.

The movie is bloated by the way... which is something because the movie also felt like it was only ninety minutes long. I'm not sure how long it was but it is fast paced and while it doesn't feel rushed... it does feel like they crammed a lot in. You get like... FOUR ORIGIN stories. Harley's. Black Canaries. Huntress and uhhhh Renee Montoya told in the form of long form flashback scenes that take up a fair bit of time and none of them particularly interesting except Huntresses.

The action scenes were mediocre. They weren't bad... but... like lots of movies have great action scenes now. There was a truly eye rolling action scene that took place in a Police Station and it was so mind numbingly poorly setup that I couldn't suspend my disbelief. Harley Quinn/Margot Robbie actually did seem to do a good job with her Bat-fu (and later Mallet-fu) and there were some quirky bits which got a smile from me.

For the climax though... it did pick up a bit. There's a great climatic battle that takes place in an amusement park/funhouse that actually had some nice frenetic fast paced mega melee with lots of nice character moments and longer cuts which worked out well and a pretty well done car/motorcycle/rollergirl chase scene as well with a nice finish to it all.

I did laugh out loud at leas three times and the first time I did... it made me think 'Oh I think I'm going to like this movie.' because I was only in the FIRST origin story (Harley's) but yeah that didn't last. Other peoples mileage with comedy might vary but there are some amusing highlights. So I will say it can be funny in moments. Some of the character interactions are nice.

Harley Quinn in two or three points actually brought up and flexed her psychiatry knowledge. There was a surprisingly warm (and brief) scene with Huntress' character and the barely useful brat character of Cassandra Cain.

But overall the film is a mess. It's not the kind of mess that you can't follow... it's the kind of mess that you saw with Suicide Squad. That movie was supposed to be dark and serious but then made to be more whimsical. Here they tried to go all in with the whimsical feel and capitalize on Harley Quinn completely dominating the film with her Deadpool lite schtick (including fourth wall breaks) but it just didn't work for me. In fact I was annoyed by the end of it because there was only one good character with one good origin story (Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Huntress) and all of that potential was completely and utterly wasted on this shallow, stylish, and silly Harley Quinn movie.

And it was a Harley Quinn movie. The whole Birds of Prey thing is barely referenced either literally or by implication/inference.

The Hyena Bruce was the second character that was completely wasted as well potential wise... especially after seeing how awesome doggos have been in films like John Wick 3 or Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
 
Wait, did “Black Canary” even have her Canary Cry?

Honestly, I think guys who grew up watching the original Justice League Animated or DCAU are deciding that cartoons for kids are way better now
 
CarlManvers2019 said:
Her and Huntress’ color scheme should be more accurate
Click to expand...

I legitimately liked the Huntress' character in this film. It was the only good part of the film character wise and probably the character whose most strongly connected with the comic book roots.
 
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