Battletech Battletech Theorycrafting / Design Thread

[ShadowArxxy]

Inspired by recent conversation with @LordSunhawk, I shall open with a humble scout tank design.

Scout Tank SCT-1T

Mass: 100 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 14,311,667 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,099

Power Plant:  200 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 21.6 km/h
Flanking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    3  Gauss Rifles
    2  ER Medium Lasers
    1  Anti-Missile System
Manufacturer: 
    Primary Factory: 
Communications System: 
Targeting and Tracking System: 

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      50 points               10.00
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             200                       7.00
    Cruise MP:  2
    Flank MP:   3
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         5.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    5.00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 386                 19.50

                                                      Armor      
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     94        
                                          Left/Right   77/77        
                                              Turret     77        
                                                Rear     61        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Medium Lasers                           FR        10        2         2.00
3 Gauss Rifles                               T         3         3        45.00
Anti-Missile System                          T         1         1         0.50
@Gauss Rifle (40)                            BD        -         0         5.00
@Anti-Missile System (12)                    BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:     13    Points: 21
2t         5       6       5       0      4     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: AMS, TUR(4/5/5)

 

[Battlegrinder]

Oh, another battletech thread. Neat! I'll try and get my stuff from mechfactory posted.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Lyran scout, now with tracks as well.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Dire Wolf Scattershock:

Tech level:	Mixed Tech / 3050
Config:	Biped OmniMech
Design level:	Level 4, Experimental design
Tonnage:	100
Chassis:	Standard (C)
Power Plant:	300 XL Fusion (C)
Walking speed:	32.4 km/h
Running speed:	54 km/h
Jump jets:	None
Armor type:	Compound 12B2 Standard (C)
Armament:	1 Improved C3 CPU [CT] 2 ER PPC [LA] 1 Rocket Launcher 15 (OS) [LT] 1 HAG40 [RA] 1 Angel ECM [RT] 1 Targeting Computer [LT]

Mad Cat Mk II D1

Tech level:	Mixed Tech / 3145
Config:	Biped BattleMech
Design level:	Level 4, Experimental design
Tonnage:	90
Chassis:	Endo Steel (C)
Power Plant:	360 XL Fusion (C)
Walking speed:	43.2 km/h
Running speed:	64.8 km/h
Jump jets:	None
Armor type:	Ferro-Fibrous (C)
Armament:	1 CASE II Equipment [-] 1 Improved C3 CPU [CT] 1 ER PPC Capacitor [LA] 1 Streak LRM 15 [LT] 1 ER PPC Capacitor [RA] 1 Streak LRM 15 [RT] 1 Targeting Computer [RT] 1 Radical HeatSink System [LT]

 

[PsihoKekec]

Now you need a tough C3 scout, for these mechs to make full use of their long range firepower.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Now you need a tough C3 scout, for these mechs to make full use of their long range firepower.

The Dire Wolf is the C3 scout, at least so far. HAGs get a bonus to the cluster roll at short range, so you want it to get close in. Might as well do some spoting while it's there.

I also had a Mad Cat Mk II variant that used silver bullet gauss rifles and streak SRMs as a scout, but I'm not really happy with how it's performed so far and probably won't bring it again.

 

[Battlegrinder]

So, returning to the idea of a C3 spotter, I'm thinking of getting a dedicated spotter mech that's design just to spot, and also to be as indestructible as possible.

I'm thinking something in the heavy/assault range, with a shield (or maybe two shields, you can do that, right?), modular armor, ferro-lamellor armor, a blue shield system, and hardjel. Because several of those reduce movement speed, I'm going to want to upgrade the engine as well. Jump jets are probably not a good idea given the many PSR penalties, however.

Not sure about weapons and other gear, aside from C3i and ECM gear, I don't think I'll have to tonnage for anything serious, and since the general goal is to deter people from shooting it because it's so tough, loading it down with anything they really have to kill seems like a bad idea. I might got for a plasma rifle and maybe an inarc or something, stuff that's disruptive any annoying, but not so much that the enemy goes into "kill it kill it kill it KILL IT NOW!!!" mode.

Any thoughts?


Well, it looks like I can fit all the armor, defensive gear, and electronics I was looking for, but that leaves virtually no room for weapons. I'm thinking harjel and modular armor is going to have to be a one or the other thing, that should free up the weight and crits I need. Thinking of dropping the armor, or most of it anyway, the decrease in speed isn't really worth it.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Heavy with Improved Jump Jets to make it dificult to hit and enough armor to shrug off what connects, along with medium lasers, if enemies close in. Alternatively you could put on Hardened Armor for double protection and shields, to turtle it out. Armoring cockpit and C3i component might also be a good idea.

EDIT

Little bit of experimentation:

Experiment

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 18.707.565 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1.406

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 350 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86,4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 240 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
1 ER Medium Laser
1 ER Small Laser
1 Improved C3 Computer
1 Angel ECM
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 107 points 3,50
Internal Locations: 4 LT, 2 RT, 4 LA, 4 RA
Engine: Light Fusion Engine 350 22,50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 8 Improved
Jump Jet Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL 16,00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0,00
Gyro: Standard 4,00
Cockpit: (A) Standard 4,00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 217 14,00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 22 33
Center Torso (rear) 11
L/R Torso 15 23
L/R Torso (rear) 7
L/R Arm 11 22
L/R Leg 15 30

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Small Laser HD 2 1 0,50
Improved C3 Computer CT 0 2 2,50
Angel ECM RT 0 2 2,00
ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1,00
Free Critical Slots: 7

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 14
5/8j 1 1 0 0 3 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: C3I, AECM, ENE, MHQ2, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Replacing Light engine with XL opens up more weigt, but makes the mech more voulnerable.

 

[Battlegrinder]

I've never been quite clear on what the big deal with hardened armor is. Each pip of armor can absorb twice as much damage, but you can only carry half as much armor as standard, that sounds kinda mediocre (there's also some stuff about it being immune to AP rounds and the like, but I think lameler does the same). But it's also got some PSR penalties while ferro doesn't.

As for my design, thus far I've got 100 tons with blue shield, actual shield, and hardjel, plus ECM, C3I and for guns it's got twin plasma cannons (could have fit a single rifle, but I went for more heat from the cannons, since doing serious damage with this mech isn't really an opition). I had to go with an XL engine, but I'm mostly going for tougher armor so I think softer insides are an acceptable risk, and I did armor the engine just in case there's a TAC.

It is only 4/6, but given how common pulse lasers are in my local meta, I'm inclined to trust armor as armor, rather than speed as armor. Jump jets would be nice, but I'm thinking harjel will be more valuable.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Hardened armor is good against penetrating crits and enemies using piercing ammo, preventing your opponent from getting the lucky hit on C3i component. Of course you could just armor the component.

 

[Battlegrinder]

I'll take a look at that, I think armoring it shouldn't add too much mass. Also going to try my hand at a heavy version not just assault, see what I come with in case the extra speed is more useful.

 

[Battlegrinder]

I've got a trio of designs based on TW2 wra GDI units, figured I'd share:

Juggernaut
3145 Assault

Source: My Own Custom /
Type/Model: Juggernaut
Tech: Mixed Tech / 3145
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 4, Experimental design

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Standard (C)
Power Plant: 200 Fusion
Walking Speed: 21.6 km/h
Running Speed: 32.4 km/h
Armor Type: Compound 12B2 Standard (C) Standard
Armament:
1 Improved C3 CPU (IS)
1 Sniper Cannon
1 Sniper Cannon
1 Sniper Cannon
---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Juggernaut
Mass: 100 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 200 Fusion 6 8.50
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 3
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 16 Double (C) [32] 16 6.00
Gyro: 4 2.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 4 0.00
Armor Factor: 307 Standard 0 19.50

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 49
Center Torso (Rear): 13
L/R Side Torso: 21 34/34
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 8/8
L/R Arm: 17 34/34
L/R Leg: 21 42/42

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Improved C3 CPU (IS) CT 0 2 2.50
1 Sniper Cannon LA 10 10 15.00
1 Sniper Cannon LT 10 10 15.00
1 Sniper Cannon RA 10 20 12 17.00
(Ammo Locations: 2 RT)
---------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 30 12 49.50
Crits and Tons Left: 1 1.50

Calculated Factors
Total Cost: 12,948,333 C-Bill
Battle Value (BV1):1326
B

Type/Model: Titan
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 4, Experimental design

Mass: 75 tons
Chassis: (IS)
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Running Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor Type: (IS) Standard
Armament:
1 CASE II Equipment
1 Improved C3 CPU
1 Sniper Artillery
1 MRM 10
Manufacturer:
Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:


---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Titan
Mass: 75 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 114 pts Endo Steel 14 4.00
(2 HD,2 LL,5 RA,2 RL,3 RT)
Engine: 300 Fusion 6 19.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 0.00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Torso-Mounted Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 6 4.00
L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA+LA+H 6 0.00
Armor Factor: 231 Standard 0 14.50

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 23 36
Center Torso (Rear): 10
L/R Side Torso: 16 26/26
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 12 24/24
L/R Leg: 16 32/32

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 CASE II Equipment 0 1 1.00
(CASE II Loc: 1 RT)
1 Improved C3 CPU HD 0 2 2.50
1 Sniper Artillery LA 10 30 23 23.00
(Ammo Locations: 3 RT)
1 MRM 10 RT 4 24 3 4.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
---------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 14 3 30.50
Crits and Tons Left: 5

Calculated Factors
Total Cost: 9,060,188 C-Bill
Battle Value (BV1):1086
BV1 with C3: 1136
Battle Value (BV2):1300

Type/Model: Mammoth MKII
Tech: Mixed Tech / 3145
Config: Quad BattleMech
Rules: Level 4, Experimental design

Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: (C)
Power Plant: 200 Fusion
Walking Speed: 21.6 km/h
Running Speed: 32.4 km/h
Armor Type: (C) Standard
Armament:
1 Improved C3 CPU (IS)
1 Heavy Machine Gun (C)
1 LRM 5 (C)
2 Gauss Rifle (C)
1 LRM 5 (C)
2 Gauss Rifle (C)
Manufacturer:
Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:


---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Mammoth MKII
Mass: 100 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 160 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 200 Fusion 6 8.50
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 3
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Single (C) 2 0.00
Gyro: 4 2.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
L: R: 0 0.00
Armor Factor: 323 Standard 0 20.50

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 49
Center Torso (Rear): 13
L/R Side Torso: 21 34/34
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 8/8
L/R Front Leg: 21 42/42
L/R Rear Leg: 21 42/42

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Improved C3 CPU (IS) CT 0 2 2.50
1 Heavy Machine Gun (C) HD 0 50 2 0.50
(Ammo Locations: 1 RA*)
1 LRM 5 (C) LL 2 1 1.00
2 Gauss Rifle (C) LT 2 12 24.00
1 LRM 5 (C) RL 2 24 2 2.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 RL)
2 Gauss Rifle (C) RT 2 16 14 26.00
(Ammo Locations: 2 LA)
---------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 8 14 56.00
Crits and Tons Left:

Calculated Factors
Total Cost: 9,971,667 C-Bill
Battle Value (BV1):2175
BV1 with C3: 2665
Battle Value (BV2):2394

I'm pretty happy with how the juggernaut and mammoth turned out, but the Titan just kinda feels mediocre.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Wasn't there errata that cannons don't benefit from C3 network? I know artillery didn't from the start.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Wasn't there errata that cannons don't benefit from C3 network? I know artillery didn't from the start.

Not that I'm aware of, on a quick google everything I'm seeing says they benefit from C3. I'm not sure why they wouldn't benefit, they're direct fire weapons with a range band, every other, similar weapon works with C3.


Besides, even if the mech isn't going to use C3 itself, it still might be worth mounting it, even if it's just going to serve as a relay between other mechs.

Edit:

And speaking of C3, I decided to rework my ultra-tough C3 spotter, by swapping the ferro-lamellor armor for hardened. Because it has hardjel, it regens two points of armor per turn, and since each point of hardened armor counts for two, in practice it regens 4 points per turn (it would do 8 with Harjel III, but III doesn't fit because it also has blue shield.....though I am thinking of dropping blue shield for III and making a purely clan zombiemech, particularly since PPCs aren't terribly common right now. At least not in enemy hands, I'vegot a bunch of PPC boats and I think bringing attention to a bit of wargear that would screw over my favorite weapon is a bad idea). Hardened armour's crit resistance means I can also afford to not spend the points armoring some internal components, though I'm keeping the engine armored right now just in case, particularly since I'd need to ditch the engine armor to fit Harjel III.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Not that I'm aware of, on a quick google everything I'm seeing says they benefit from C3. I'm not sure why they wouldn't benefit, they're direct fire weapons with a range band, every other, similar weapon works with C3.

It's a rainy day, so I pulled out my books.

Tactical Operations (page 285) says that Artillery Cannon attacks are resolved in the same way as Indirect LRM fire against target unit, but delivers damage to target hex and adjacent hexes.

Total Warfare says that C3 equipped units spotting for or launching Indirect LRM fire do not benefit from C# network.

Thus only benefit from C3i is that if anyone closes with your artillery platform, you will have easier time dispatching the interloper.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Thanks! I really need to get a copy of tac ops at some point.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Just don't go down the rabit hole of large support vehicles and structures constructio, for there lies the path of supervillany

 

[Battlegrinder]

Aren't support vehicles mostly non-combat units that are really only useful in campaigns and the like (or really, really niche stuff like the coolent truck that has battlefield utility but also massive drawbacks)?

 

[PsihoKekec]

Sure, but then you get to the mobile structures like Rattler and soon you are constructing stuff only supervillain would like, along with supervillain lair that SLDF would pass up for being too expensive.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Oooh, so large support vehicles and all that being the path to supervillainity is related to supervillains building large hideouts and stuff.