Alternate History ASB WI US replaced with Sea 1945

[Deleted member 88]

Hey first post here,

Basically an ASB WI

In September of 1945-at the end of WW2 the United States vanishes.

The continental US alongside all its territories are replaced by ocean-thus meaning there is an ocean between Canada and Mexico, Alaska is replaced by a cold sea, and so are the Hawaiian islands and any other US possessions including Puerto Rico.

US forces and personnel however wherever they are in the world remain.

Does the Soviet Union make a go at conquering Eurasia? Do the British and French consolidate into an Anglo-French union to fend off the Soviets and hold on to their colonies?

Thoughts?

 

[Spartan303]

Yep. They most certainly will. Their primary rival just went up in smoke. And while what's left is still formidable, it just had its heart and spine ripped out.

 

[Deleted member 88]

I wonder if the US troops in Europe will try to carve out some sort of state somewhere.

This was IIRC before the major drawdown of US forces.

So the Soviets might encounter a little more resistance than a speed bump.

 

[Spartan303]

I wonder if the US troops in Europe will try to carve out some sort of state somewhere.

This was IIRC before the major drawdown of US forces.

So the Soviets might encounter a little more resistance than a speed bump.

Likely not. They'll probably be offered asylum by the host countries. They become productive members of those societies...until the Soviets come a knockin. Then they either die or get thrown in a Gulag and...die.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Likely not. They'll probably be offered asylum by the host countries. They become productive members of those societies...until the Soviets come a knockin. Then they either die or get thrown in a Gulag and...die.

I would think yeah in the long run the Soviets rule Eurasia-at least for a while anyway.

The Americans probably install themselves in charge of Japan, and coordinate with the French and the British to hold onto the periphery of the Eurasian landmass(the various islands, southeast asia, etc...).

With the US gone-meaning its industrial and population power gone, the best alternative I see is a fortress island strategy-with Britain, Australia, NZ, Japan and a few other countries basically arming their navies to the teeth, and fortifying their coastlines.

Europe would be lost-though the Soviet conquest of Spain and Italy, alongside Greece and possibly Turkey(not to mention Scandinavia) would no doubt be costly and take years.

But yeah, the west has its heart ripped out. The Soviets would likely ensure communist governments in India and China-which would eventually industrialize and then 30 to forty years later, break the Soviet grip on the Eurasian landmass.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

One thing'll be for sure, if the commies get their power broken, Communism will be the most hated ideology on the european continent.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Hmm, maybe maybe not.

Communism will likely go unchallenged ideologically for a long time. Eventually Soviet rule will totter and come down-even if the powers that replace it identify as communist themselves.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Hmm, maybe maybe not.

Communism will likely go unchallenged ideologically for a long time. Eventually Soviet rule will totter and come down-even if the powers that replace it identify as communist themselves.

That's a depressing thought. Generation after generation under totalitarian regimes, with insane regulations killing off flora and fauna to fulfill quotas, high ranking politicans gorgeing themselves upon the sweat and blood of the perpeptually poor workers, and anyone trying to improve the situation being quickly disappeared.

 

[Doomsought]

The reconstruction of Europe will be set back decades. The world economy at that point was basically the US sending reconstruction materials to Europe in return for dept.

 

[Quickdraw101]

Assuming the climate and weather is handwaved, because the disappearance of 1/3 of North America will fuck everyone over, there's quite a few things that happen. There's still millions of US troops, tens of thousands of tanks and planes, and thousands of ships are still out overseas. Granted, I don't think anyone can find a solid number regarding the exact number, but in OTL, the navy spent the next year ferrying millions of troops back home to America, something they won't be doing now. By the end of 1945, there was roughly 350,000 troops in Japan proper. They, like those stationed in the Koran peninsula, will likely have to stay there for the foreseeable future as a deterrent to the Soviets and later Chinese. Millions of American troops and their gear will be forever stuck in Europe and Canada, because there is nowhere else for them to go. The US navy might very will focus entriely on ferrying men and supplies to the Pacific to keep MacArthur and the forces there secure.

The Soviets, seeing America is now gone, will likely go to holds barred in regards to spreading communism, and will probably turn all of Latin America, most of the Middle East, and practically all of Asia communist in the process. If Israel ever comes into existence, they'll be significantly weaker and almost certainly reliant on European aid, assuming all of Europe isn't covered in red, which British and French nukes might later deter, or just use their nukes as a defensive measure. In the end, the Soviets and their allies will be the strongest on the planet, and the only thing stopping them in Europe will be the threat of a nuclear response.

 

[Deleted member 88]

I doubt the French will have nuclear weapons in time. Before either the red army overruns Paris, or a soviet backed uprising in the form of native French communists does the job for them(Stalin probably would insist on the former given his paranoia).

The British should be relatively safe given Soviet naval weakness.

Which the soviets won’t be able to rectify for a long time. Not until they have most of Eurasia locked down.

Most US troops will end up dead or in the UK.

Japan, Australia and India should also be fairly secure.

Continental Eurasia though will fall within a few years.

What the soviets can’t take with the red army boot, local communists will do almost as well. Africa will likely be awash in revolution, same with Latin America.

I expect the neutrals of Europe to be either overrun or to be Finlandized as Soviet vassals. Switzerland should probably be too tough a nut to crack. And so the soviets will likely just demand Switzerland stay neutral and provide no support for the western powers in any capacity on pain of invasion.

Spain being fascist falls fast alongside Portugal.

I suspect native communist forces will have a tense relationship with the red army-what Stalin can’t co-opt, he will crush. French Communists, Greek communists, Italian communists and so on-will either have anti soviet(or anti Stalin) members purged or the whole organizations purged and replaced with Stalin toadies for good measure.

 

[StormEagle]

The question becomes how far the Soviet war machine can stretch, and how they deal with active and extremely violent partisan resistance to their occupation. The western allies could do a lot of damage by merely releasing and arming the nazis in their custody.

It’s unlikely that the partisan Germans would be able to bog down the Soviets for long, but they’d do some damage. This also means we could see a resurgent extremist right, funded by Britain and France to stave off the soviets, in the balkans and Central Europe.

If the Soviets try to push on to Paris they’d face stiff opposition, but I expect the remaining allied forces to be pushed back towards the Mediterranean or the channel.

The soviets can’t really stop the allies from safely withdrawing to England if they’re pushed to the channel.

The Mediterranean scenario is where things get interesting. The allies might be able to set up a makeshift alpine line alongside a Pyrenees line if they convince Franco.

Spain was basically untouched by the war, but I don’t know enough about their industry to know how much of a fight they could actually put up.

And again, the question is how long the soviets can keep the war going, how far they can stretch their supply lines, and what countries the war expands to.

If they get bogged down on hypothetical defensive lines, with partisans doing whatever they can to tear into them, the Soviets could very well kill themselves trying to dominate Eurasia.

 

[Quickdraw101]

I doubt the French will have nuclear weapons in time. Before either the red army overruns Paris, or a soviet backed uprising in the form of native French communists does the job for them(Stalin probably would insist on the former given his paranoia).

The British should be relatively safe given Soviet naval weakness.

Which the soviets won’t be able to rectify for a long time. Not until they have most of Eurasia locked down.

Most US troops will end up dead or in the UK.

Japan, Australia and India should also be fairly secure.

Continental Eurasia though will fall within a few years.

What the soviets can’t take with the red army boot, local communists will do almost as well. Africa will likely be awash in revolution, same with Latin America.

I expect the neutrals of Europe to be either overrun or to be Finlandized as Soviet vassals. Switzerland should probably be too tough a nut to crack. And so the soviets will likely just demand Switzerland stay neutral and provide no support for the western powers in any capacity on pain of invasion.

Spain being fascist falls fast alongside Portugal.

I suspect native communist forces will have a tense relationship with the red army-what Stalin can’t co-opt, he will crush. French Communists, Greek communists, Italian communists and so on-will either have anti soviet(or anti Stalin) members purged or the whole organizations purged and replaced with Stalin toadies for good measure.

The Red Army only did as good as it did because of Lend Lease. Stalin also made it clear that even if the Western allies were slower to the Elbe, Russia wouldn't keep going west because of the casualties and logistical problems. Britain and France know this, but it will behoove them to acquire nuclear weapons no matter what. The Soviets can't just rush into Europe, because there's still a near parity in numbers, and the allies have more aircraft and transportation available to them. Not to mention the US navy in the Pacific can threaten Vladivostok and bomb it straight to hell or even send Marines ashore if they get violent. Russia can't really push to the channel given theirbl logistics and resistance they'll face. In this scenario, chances are many former German soldiers will be rearmed and the Ruhr region will be brought back up.

 

[Deleted member 88]

France and Britain are exhausted, and France is ruined.

The Americans have lots of equipment and troops-but it can't be replaced.

The Red Army should at least make it to the Franco-German border.

 

[Quickdraw101]

France and Britain are exhausted, and France is ruined.

The Americans have lots of equipment and troops-but it can't be replaced.

The Red Army should at least make it to the Franco-German border.

It can't be replaced, but Uncle Joe only got to Berlin because of American Lend Lease, which gave the logistical capacity necessary. They aren't in a position to drive further than they already have. Sure, the American hardware and equipment can't be replaced, but there's a lot of it, and the Soviets will strain themselves past the breaking point trying to push further into Europe by force. Neither side can afford to keep fighting, not when they were already struggling to being with. WW3 is probable down the line however.

 

[WolfBear]

Might Japan be interested in resuming its militaristic drive in this TL? I mean, it only surrendered a month earlier, and there's no US to nuke it any longer, so Japan could theoretically rebuild its military and resume its territorial expansion. On the flip side, though, Japan could still be aware that another Great Power could develop nukes in the future and proceed to nuke Japan, such as the Soviet Union. Would Japan really want to risk this after already getting nuked twice?

Thoughts?