ASB scenario - Axis-held Germany, Bohemia, Austria & Italy ISOT from April 23, 1945 to April 23, 1845

raharris1973

Well-known member
Midnight April 23 1945 - Hitler made his last public appearance to give medals on his birthday 3 days before. His commanders told him the day before his proposed operational schemes for a counterattack and defense to hold Berlin are untenable. He's stated his intention to stay in Berlin and kill himself rather than be captured, and just about given hope of being a Miracle of the House of Brandenburg to save him, despite taking cheer at the death of Roosevelt 11 days before.

The Russians are shelling Berlin.

Mussolini, the "Head of State" of the Italian Social Republic (RSI), aka the "Republic of Salo" is facing the start of the final Allied offensive into northern Italy. Attempts by some of his cronies and German military commanders to broker a surrender basically failed. His preoccupation above all is about how to get to Switzerland before the Allies, or Italian partisans, get to him.

Within just a few hours on the 23rd, the Soviet Russians were destined to pinch off and surround Berlin on all sides. That afternoon, American and Soviet forward troops would meet at Torgau on the Elbe. Mussolini would be caught and shot by April 28th, Hitler would shoot himself on April 30th.

But in this dimension of the multi-verse, that doesn't happen. Instead, every bit of territory and people still within Axis lines in Germany, Bohemia, Austria, and Italy is sent by supernatural force exactly 100 years in time, replacing the lands and people there. By morning the German forces notice that its only the sound of their own guns they are hearing and they are not taking hits from HE shells and bullets for hours.

What they have seen and heard and occasionally felt are a few bullets and relatively muted explosions from weak, almost antique bullets and cannon, and puffs of black powder smoke in the distance. Plus some men in antique costume holding up white flags venturing forth to parley.

On a Europe-wide scale, this is what has occurred:
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In Italy, the Habsburg territories of Lombardy and most of Venetia, the Duchy of Parma, and the Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia, except for Nice, Savoy, and Sardinia, have been replaced by the German-occupied Italian Fascist Social Republic, with a core of Fascist true believers and an increasingly restive population and some anti-Fascist partisans.

The Austrian Habsburgs have found their lands sitting roughly within the German Confederation replaced with a new state with a Swastika flag that is strangely both built up, and smashed down. With large concrete and steel structures both standing and destroyed. The line doesn't track the German Confederation exactly, the Habsburgs still have Slovenia and their riviera, they still have Vienna and Brunn, but their Graz-Styria, western Austria, Bohemia and Silesia are this frightening new thing.

Baden and Wurttemburg have lost their southern extremities to the swastika land. Bavaria, while holding onto its Franconian lands and Nuremburg, has lost its Upper Bavarian heartland and Munich.

Hamburg, Lübeck, Bremen, Saxony, Holstein, and most of Schleswig have entirely vanished and been replaced by the Swastika state, with its landscape all being an even uglier gray of smoke, steel, and massive building, massively destroyed.

Prussia has its heart torn out with its capital overwritten by the bombed out 1944 version of Berlin, and a central north-south strip running through Brandenburg. It also loses all its coastline west of the Oder river. But it retains the bulk of its landmass, population, and frontier armies.

[Described territorial situation all shown on map, with coat of arms and green marking the Italian social republic, the Habsburg and Hohenzollern coats of arms marking their territories, and you know what marking the Nazis in crimson]

For the Nazis and Italian Fascists, their miracle has come with the disappearance of their enemies.

They face starvation, exposure, exhaustion, and they are sitting on land that various 19th century powers thinks is their property. But they possess weapons technology, tactical knowledge, some remaining industrial facilities (although quite short of raw materials) and industrial know-how a century in advance of everyone else they share the continent, and the world, with.

What next?
 
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stevep

Well-known member
Ugh! Hopefully the Nazis will be taken down eventually but this is going to be a total disaster for the population of Europe and quite possibly the wider world. The danger is this miracle will deepen the continued commitment to Hitler and his regime by the fanatics and the more corrupt as they latter will see a lot of potential once they realise what's happened.

Hopefully there will be enough Germans and others tied of the war and destruction, along with slave workers, escaping to the down timers to help them adjust ASAP to the new threat.
 

raharris1973

Well-known member
....meanwhile...

In a dimension of the multi-verse next door, where all this Axis-held territory vanished in an instant on 23 April, life goes for the world of 1945.

Allied forces quickly notice the end of artillery attacks, air sorties, infantry probes, and radio transmissions from enemy territory.

Combat obstacles and hazards to advancing disappear, while the appearance of muddier fields, thicker forests and the disappearance or roads and rails becomes the bigger challenge for motor vehicle movement.

Soviet forces within a few hours walk nearly unopposed into the palace of the Prussian King and demand to know where Hitler is. American forces occupy King Ludwig's castles. American troops feel like they've just walked into an Oktoberfest. In Italy smokestacks and railyards are replaced by farms and opera houses.
 

stevep

Well-known member
....meanwhile...

In a dimension of the multi-verse next door, where all this Axis-held territory vanished in an instant on 23 April, life goes for the world of 1945.

Allied forces quickly notice the end of artillery attacks, air sorties, infantry probes, and radio transmissions from enemy territory.

Combat obstacles and hazards to advancing disappear, while the appearance of muddier fields, thicker forests and the disappearance or roads and rails becomes the bigger challenge for motor vehicle movement.

Soviet forces within a few hours walk nearly unopposed into the palace of the Prussian King and demand to know where Hitler is. American forces occupy King Ludwig's castles. American troops feel like they've just walked into an Oktoberfest. In Italy smokestacks and railyards are replaced by farms and opera houses.

That's going to make for an interesting post war settlement in Germany and the other affected areas. With parts of Bohemia and much of Austria and N Italy now a century in the past its going to be complex deciding what to do with them. I wouldn't want to be the Prussian monarch or elements of his government trying to deal with the Red Army and NKDV!

Denmark and Norway are also going to be affected aren't they, since their still under Nazi occupation at this point.
 

raharris1973

Well-known member
That's going to make for an interesting post war settlement in Germany and the other affected areas. With parts of Bohemia and much of Austria and N Italy now a century in the past its going to be complex deciding what to do with them. I wouldn't want to be the Prussian monarch or elements of his government trying to deal with the Red Army and NKDV!

Denmark and Norway are also going to be affected aren't they, since their still under Nazi occupation at this point.

I decided to not send them back in time. Nor the remaining occupied portions of Holland.
 

ATP

Well-known member
That's going to make for an interesting post war settlement in Germany and the other affected areas. With parts of Bohemia and much of Austria and N Italy now a century in the past its going to be complex deciding what to do with them. I wouldn't want to be the Prussian monarch or elements of his government trying to deal with the Red Army and NKDV!

Denmark and Norway are also going to be affected aren't they, since their still under Nazi occupation at this point.

Yes,Prussians are fucked in both scenarios.Becouse Hitler hated german gentry.
In 1945 soviets take what they want just like OTL,but,since we had A-H elements in Italy and Austria,A-H could be recreated using austrian and italian territories.

In 1845 - germans take over Europe.Sorry,nobody would stop them in 1845.Taking Europe mean taking Africa,too,and most of Asia.Since Hitler would belive that german god support him,he would not stop.
Maybe England would hold him long enough for take some technology to Canada and create free state there.Maybe he would take both Americas,too.

P.S what about sending him 80.000 BC? he would meet only Neandertals then.Considering,that Hitler was first ecologist,he probably let them live.
And there would be no jews and slavic people,not mention USA.Hitler paradise.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
People are going to quickly wonder where exactly all of the Jews in Germany, Bohemia, Austria, and Italy went off to. Once they find out that they've been exterminated, even Tsar Nicholas I of Russia is going to say "Shit, Adolf, you're making *me* look like a total Saint and Judeophile here!"
 

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