An IP of our own

[AnimalNoodles]

We have all watched the destruction of our own favorite verses, fandoms and media franchises from so-called 'wokeness', over commercialisation and other bullshit.

I think its high time for us to start creating something of our own.

Why waste time with IPs owned and written by people who hate you? Lets create something new. A playground by us and for us. Something fun that reflects our sensibilities.

I have a concept in mind, based on the Age of Exploration. This isnt a grimdark universe, Space San Francisco, or one where plucky rebels fight the space nazis. Its unabashed space opera more along the lines of of old school sci-fi. Its not cynical, its not ironic, its not parody. For flavour, imagine space venice mixed with the British East India company. Imagine Drake and Cortez in space. For aesthetics, the Baroque era.

Its specifically intended to recreate the age of sail in space. Rule of cool, not hard SF. Its to be a playground, not a realistic exploration of space sociology or something. We will borrow shamlessly from anything that is cool or suitable.

I have the basics worked out. If there is interest, we'll start up a thread in the Index forum at creative writing, and I can begin dropping down some basic guidelines for the concept and lore ideas for discussion and expansion. In time, maybe we can have a thing of our own.

 

[Skallagrim]

I'd certainly like to see what you're thinking of. What you say reminds me rather a bit of Poul Anderson (esp. his stories about Nicholas van Rijn), and that's always a good thing.


ETA: note that if you are serious about the 'IP' bit-- posting anything in the public section of a forum can screw you over monumentally on that front, because of how the ToS may be set up. So in that case, move the discussion (even the ansering of my questions below) to the members-only section. And then please tell me about it, because I never actually asked for access to that. So if this is taken there, I'll have to see to that, I guess.


Some questions that arise at once, when doing something like this:

-- How hard is the sci-fi here? For a somewhat 'romantic' (or, as you say: baroque) take inspired by a historical period, too hard a setting may put a damper on things.

-- Is this interstellar, or is everything happening in the solar system? If galactic, what kind of FTL (if any) is there? Are we talking about sub-light but still very fast torchships (turning our local region of the galaxy into an equivalent of the seven seas back in the age of sail)? Or are there FTL drives/gates of some sort, and is the setting therefore bigger in scope (encompassing much more of the galaxy)?

-- Is it set in the future, in a fictional setting, or in so distant a future (possibly after one or more cataclysms) that any "real-world" elements are mostly flavouring in practice. (For comparison, purely regarding this one aspect: Star Trek is in the future, Star Wars is in a fictional setting, and Dune or 40K are in a future so distant that the present is functionallu irrelevant.)

-- Aliens or no aliens? If yes, how signficant are they? Victims of Man's expansion? Rival powers? If no, are there humans who have become functionally "alien"? (Mutated and/or engineered subspecies, cyborgs...)

-- Is there meaningful AI? If not, is this because of some fundamental injunction against it (which would have to draconically enforced) or is there simply a 'science' reason (such as: "we could never got sapient AI to work", or "we can make them, but they always go insane within hours").

-- If you want something resembling the Age of Exploration, then do you want to (vaguely or more directly) imitate military clashes from that age? If so, can that be justified by some setting-defining tech that renders the more realistic "shooting from ludicrous distances, so space combat is actually more U-boat combat" impossible (e.g. are there shields that can somehow only be pierced by weapons that can only be used within relatively short ranges?)

-- Is there just a "static setting" (e.g. the sci-fi equivalent of "middle ages forever" in fantasy), or is there a real history that progresses?

-- Related to the first question, but: are there psychers of some kind? Obviously a no-no in hard sci-fi, but they used to be a staple in most of the space operas. (And if there are any, is this treated 'scientifically' in-setting, or are they viewed a bit as 'witches' of a sort?)

 

[AnimalNoodles]

I'd certainly like to see what you're thinking of. What you say reminds me rather a bit of Poul Anderson (esp. his stories about Nicholas van Rijn), and that's always a good thing.


ETA: note that if you are serious about the 'IP' bit-- posting anything in the public section of a forum can screw you over monumentally on that front, because of how the ToS may be set up. So in that case, move the discussion (even the ansering of my questions below) to the members-only section. And then please tell me about it, because I never actually asked for access to that. So if this is taken there, I'll have to see to that, I guess.

I just use the term IP. Its just a 'verse we can create and mess with.

Some questions that arise at once, when doing something like this:

-- How hard is the sci-fi here? For a somewhat 'romantic' (or, as you say: baroque) take inspired by a historical period, too hard a setting may put a damper on things.

Not hard. No harder than say, Battletech. the 'science' exists only to serve the setting.

-- Is this interstellar, or is everything happening in the solar system? If galactic, what kind of FTL (if any) is there? Are we talking about sub-light but still very fast torchships (turning our local region of the galaxy into an equivalent of the seven seas back in the age of sail)? Or are there FTL drives/gates of some sort, and is the setting therefore bigger in scope (encompassing much more of the galaxy)?

Its interstellar. There will be a form of FTL *between* systems, with sublight travel inside of systems. I am adapting the idea of a hyperspace with 'currents' of gravity that can be 'sailed', inspired by webers stuff but adapted. communication is also sub ftl, with intersystem communications using fast dispatch boats.

-- Is it set in the future, in a fictional setting, or in so distant a future (possibly after one or more cataclysms) that any "real-world" elements are mostly flavouring in practice. (For comparison, purely regarding this one aspect: Star Trek is in the future, Star Wars is in a fictional setting, and Dune or 40K are in a future so distant that the present is functionallu irrelevant.)

In the far future. So much so that the very location of the human origin world is no longer known. This takes place after a mass collapse that reverted humanity to a pre technological state.

-- Aliens or no aliens? If yes, how signficant are they? Victims of Man's expansion? Rival powers? If no, are there humans who have become functionally "alien"? (Mutated and/or engineered subspecies, cyborgs...)

No aliens. my basic idea is that there was once a far vaster human civ that terraformed and settled the stars, then mysteriously collapsed.

As a result, most life is terran in origin. Of course there are many places where humans have far diverged over the millennia. These would be the "aliens".

The basic idea is about a new civ that has emerged after thousands of years and is spreading out, exploring, settling, conquering, trading with the many many terran descended worlds it finds. In fact, most life is terran descended. There will be alien lifeforms, and alien ecosystems, but they will be very rare. The sentients though are all terran in origin.

-- Is there meaningful AI? If not, is this because of some fundamental injunction against it (which would have to draconically enforced) or is there simply a 'science' reason (such as: "we could never got sapient AI to work", or "we can make them, but they always go insane within hours").

I envision sentient AI as being banned. VI would be ubiquitous though. In fact, techs exist which explicitly interfere with the ability of digital computers to properly compute. As a result, most computers are organic in nature.

-- If you want something resembling the Age of Exploration, then do you want to (vaguely or more directly) imitate military clashes from that age? If so, can that be justified by some setting-defining tech that renders the more realistic "shooting from ludicrous distances, so space combat is actually more U-boat combat" impossible (e.g. are there shields that can somehow only be pierced by weapons that can only be used within relatively short ranges?)

I have that bit worked out. no details here, but its set up so that mass space battles require broadsides of kinetic weapons from close ranges. Rule of cool.

-- Is there just a "static setting" (e.g. the sci-fi equivalent of "middle ages forever" in fantasy), or is there a real history that progresses?

Its a setting for whatever you want to do with it.

-- Related to the first question, but: are there psychers of some kind? Obviously a no-no in hard sci-fi, but they used to be a staple in most of the space operas. (And if there are any, is this treated 'scientifically' in-setting, or are they viewed a bit as 'witches' of a sort?)

Naw. I dislike space magic tbh. No psykers.

 

[ATP]

Sails in space?
i read 3 such books,one in polish,so i skip it,and two english:

1.Dave Grossman and Leo Frankowski "The two-space war" - good,but sadly died with one of authors,
2. trilogy Larklight by Philip Reeve,which ended in heart warming happy end.

You could use both to create new world.

 

[Typhonis]

Once in hyperspace you remain in hyperspace until you exit.

Entering and exiting Hyperspace your momentum does not change.

Gravity affects things in hyperspace thus you get currents and eddie's and even' rocks' if the gravity field is strong enough.

You cannot time travel through hyperspace. It is a separate dimension altogether.

There may or may not be life forms in Hyperspace. Any encounters with one will be a disaster. Case in point Krill shrimp meet Blue Whale.

Once in Hyperspace you are alone. Even a group of ships jumping at the exact same time will not run into other ships while in Hyperspace.

You cannot Hyperspace Ram something it just does not work!

The only thing from the physical universe that exists in Hyperspace are Black Holes, Neutron Stars and Pulsars. Thus you have a way to check navigation.

You should be 100 diameters from a planet or star to enter Hyperspace. You can enter sooner but there will be additional risks.

Hyperspace drive has the Hyperspace Motivator and the Jump Capacitor. Both work together to ensure a stable jump. The Hyperspace Motivator is composed of the Scanning Array and the Jump Inducer. Jump Capacitor consists of the Energy Vent and Power Coils.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Its specifically intended to recreate the age of sail in space. Rule of cool, not hard SF. Its to be a playground, not a realistic exploration of space sociology or something. We will borrow shamlessly from anything that is cool or suitable.

When you say “age of sail in space” and “rule of cool”, would starships in your setting resemble the vessels of Disney’s sci-fi take on Treasure Planet back in 2002?

 

[AnimalNoodles]

When you say “age of sail in space” and “rule of cool”, would starships in your setting resemble the vessels of Disney’s sci-fi take on Treasure Planet back in 2002?

Naw. Basically Hyperspace is full of gravity currents. You enter into hyperspace, and use the currents to speed up travel from system to system. These currents and vortices shift and change according to events in the universe. Since mass creates gravity, large gravity wells create more extreme vortices in hyperspace..so the closer you get to a star, you stormier it gets, until you get close enough to a gravity well that the the turbulence is too high, and you have to translate to real space and get there the old fashioned way.

Basically i wanted to prevent an situation where you could simply zip right up to a planet and exit hyperspace.

 

[Typhonis]

Basically i wanted to prevent an situation where you could simply zip right up to a planet and exit hyperspace.

That is why I mentioned the 100 diameter limit. Closer than that and it becomes rather hard to navigate and move. Itr becomes extremely dangerous even. Past 100 and Hyperspace is calmer, more structured so FTL is safer to use. Can you do it? Yes But it has risks and dangers like damaging your drive and leaving you stuck in Hyperspace.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

That is why I mentioned the 100 diameter limit. Closer than that and it becomes rather hard to navigate and move. Itr becomes extremely dangerous even. Past 100 and Hyperspace is calmer, more structured so FTL is safer to use. Can you do it? Yes But it has risks and dangers like damaging your drive and leaving you stuck in Hyperspace.

We have a similar conception, but I base it on the gravity well. More mass, more gravity, more turbulence, and the further away you need to be to exit hyperspace. I like the idea of a fleet spending a month to get to its destination star then another couple of weeks to get to its destination planet in newtonian space. So it takes time for news that the native inhabitants of Paleirma have driven out the occupation garrison sent there to guard the interests of the Far Horizons Combine. The dispatch boat takes a month to relay news, it takes time for the Combine to assemble elements of its corporate fleet and hired Condotta, and time to get there, esp since a gravity storm caused by local nova has disrupted the currents.

Several years pass at least, just like in the real age of sail.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

We have a similar conception, but I base it on the gravity well. More mass, more gravity, more turbulence, and the further away you need to be to exit hyperspace. I like the idea of a fleet spending a month to get to its destination star then another couple of weeks to get to its destination planet in newtonian space. So it takes time for news that the native inhabitants of Paleirma have driven out the occupation garrison sent there to guard the interests of the Far Horizons Combine. The dispatch boat takes a month to relay news, it takes time for the Combine to assemble elements of its corporate fleet and hired Condotta, and time to get there, esp since a gravity storm caused by local nova has disrupted the currents.

Several years pass at least, just like in the real age of sail.

Sounds like Battletech a lot, just without the HPGs for FTL comms.

 

[Typhonis]

Several years pass at least, just like in the real age of sail.

A reason for Cryogenic suspension. If you need to spend a few months in isolation.You may use it to help alleviate the need for supplies and cut down on the cabin fever since there is nothing to see outside except for the distant marks of black holes, quasars and neutron stars.

Sounds like Battletech a lot, just without the HPGs for FTL comms.

We really need to establish what technologies exist and do not exist and what effect they have had. Currently there is no FTL communication or sensors. Messages travel as fast as the mail ship can go and then transmit them in a new system. There is a lag between sending out a message and getting a return. This would also affect how big a 'star nation' could get before the locals get tired of waiting 18 to 24 months for a response to a local emergency.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

A reason for Cryogenic suspension. If you need to spend a few months in isolation.You may use it to help alleviate the need for supplies and cut down on the cabin fever since there is nothing to see outside except for the distant marks of black holes, quasars and neutron stars.

We really need to establish what technologies exist and do not exist and what effect they have had. Currently there is no FTL communication or sensors. Messages travel as fast as the mail ship can go and then transmit them in a new system. There is a lag between sending out a message and getting a return. This would also affect how big a 'star nation' could get before the locals get tired of waiting 18 to 24 months for a response to a local emergency.

In my basic concept there arent really alot star nations per se. Much of known space is ruled as colonies under the domination of vast joint stock conglomerates known as combines similar to the British East Company under charters granting them monopolies. These corporations are owned by alliances of Noble Families, who are represented in a Grand Senate and govern in a system known as the Serenissima. The Serenissima is not a highly centralised Empire and Speaker is not an Emperor. It is a much looser system and the Speaker has far less authority.

The Families are forbidden to possess large militaries and fleets. But the Combines have no such rules. So the Families use the Combines to fight thier battles with each other and hire lots of mercs as proxies.

The system is enforced by the Combined Fleet, which is loyal only to the Grand Senate and maintains a complete monopoly on the use of weapons of mass destruction. The Combined fleet defends the home system, the senatorial colonies, advances the interests of the Senate, protects the Serenissima against the Outsiders and enforces the rules of war. It, and only it can decide on the use of weapons of mass destruction. The Grand Senate may request, but only the Fleet can decide. Anyone else making indiscriminate use of NBC weapons, indiscrimate kinetic bombardments and other such things will face its wrath.

At the forefront of all this are the Condotta. They are licensed mercenaries, explorers and conquistadors. They operate according to a code, and belong to a society known as the Fraterna. The Combines have complete monopolies over thier territories. Only the Condotta have license to travel freely and contract themselves anywhere in the the Serenissima as mercenaries and explorers. Many condotta will leave the Serenissima altogether, to explore for riches and conquer thier own little empires out in the galactic wilds.

In the class based society of the Serenissima, the Condotta are a way anyone can rise to greatness.

My main influences are Dune, The Codominium books by pournelle and niven, and a sadly obscure series called Yamato: A rage in heaven. I am told it has some similarities to Btech, but i am not familiar with the setting, and while there are mechs (because mechs are cool) its not centered around them. This is also an empire that is rising, and growing instead of one in decline, or during a dark age.

There are cyberpunk elements in my concept as well, and some transhumanism esp amongst the Outsider empires. The condotta are actually inspired by the rogue trader concept. This all began with a discussion in my gaming group about a starting something new after GW's antics inspired us all to give up on Wh40k. These are derived from notes I made after that discussion, as we intend to start something in Traveller or a similar system.

 

[Typhonis]

Go with Cepheus Engine or Cepheus Universe. Both are fairly easy and you only need 2D6 to play. Think Traveller LBB 2.0 with the numbers filed off. Or if you want a horror setting, Hostile.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

Go with Cepheus Engine or Cepheus Universe. Both are fairly easy and you only need 2D6 to play. Think Traveller LBB 2.0 with the numbers filed off. Or if you want a horror setting, Hostile.

ill give it a look

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

I suppose my "two cents" would be to ask what is the story your trying to tell. Before going into backstories, fictional histories or even aesthetic I think that would be important to nail down.

Is this a "military adventure" story about some brave explorers tracking through uncharted space and having exciting adventure with "alien" civilization?

Is it a coming of age story, say a cabin boy on one of these sailing ships "growing up" against the challenge of this "New World"?

Maybe a more comedic story of a "Rogue Trader" getting into hijinks with native forces and other Traders and has to use his quick wits and wacky schemes to get himself out?

A story about a "Wild West" town/colony out on the frontier where law descends from the barrel of a gun?

Ect,ect. Basically the story(ies) you want to tell will heavily shape the sort of "universe" the IP should be.

 

[AnimalNoodles]

I suppose my "two cents" would be to ask what is the story your trying to tell. Before going into backstories, fictional histories or even aesthetic I think that would be important to nail down.

Is this a "military adventure" story about some brave explorers tracking through uncharted space and having exciting adventure with "alien" civilization?

Is it a coming of age story, say a cabin boy on one of these sailing ships "growing up" against the challenge of this "New World"?

Maybe a more comedic story of a "Rogue Trader" getting into hijinks with native forces and other Traders and has to use his quick wits and wacky schemes to get himself out?

A story about a "Wild West" town/colony out on the frontier where law descends from the barrel of a gun?

Ect,ect. Basically the story(ies) you want to tell will heavily shape the sort of "universe" the IP should be.

It would be a full setting, with many factions and conflicts. It would be whatever you want it to be. Want to go into military adventures? Well, you could write about battles between the Combines, or perhaps between the Combined Fleet and various Outsiders. Or maybe Condotta mercenary companies.

Into exploration? Well, you could write about one of the Condotta leading an expedition into an unexplored cluster.

Like intrigue? The constant jostling for power and influence between the families, the combines and even on the colony worlds provides opportunities.

In the end, it would be a place for us to pour our own energies towards something we would create for ourselves, and not contribute towards IPs owned by people who objectively despise us.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

It would be a full setting, with many factions and conflicts. It would be whatever you want it to be. Want to go into military adventures? Well, you could write about battles between the Combines, or perhaps between the Combined Fleet and various Outsiders. Or maybe Condotta mercenary companies.

Into exploration? Well, you could write about one of the Condotta leading an expedition into an unexplored cluster.

Like intrigue? The constant jostling for power and influence between the families, the combines and even on the colony worlds provides opportunities.

In the end, it would be a place for us to pour our own energies towards something we would create for ourselves, and not contribute towards IPs owned by people who objectively despise us.

Well, I personally, feel this is the wrong way to go about creating an IP. It feels, if you'll pardon the comparison, very corporate. My first thoughts when reading this thread was "Rebel Moon" which seemed desperate to emulate the form of Star Wars without understanding its substance. That it was so busy trying to be "Epic" with all this lore that you could tell a million stories in it forgot ANH was a compelling, tight narrative which works whether its part of an expansive saga or this one off film. I get shades of this here. I could believe you started brainstorming this in a gamer group because it feels like a tabletop setting.

It has that open-ended, quest-hook feel to it were it is very easy to imagine inserting my own adventure into the framework but by the same token its hard for me to become invested because of that focus on mailability over identity.

That they're "factions and conflicts" rather than Luke taking his first steps into a larger world which leads to him confronting the evil Empire, rescuing a Princess and striking a crucial blow for freedom.

Now I'm not saying this to discourage you, I honestly wish you the best in getting this shared story-verse off the ground. I freely admit I'm guilty of world building for my pet settings as well. Granted most of my stories are just excuses for buxom women to get naked and shoot bug eyed monsters but I do love tinkering with and brainstorming backstory for the Holy Star Kingdom of Tanis or the Solarian Confederacy or why a tribe of space dwarves are called the Exiles.

So, if you'll forgive the digression, I do understand the impulse and I appreciate wanting to share a "setting of adventure" for any and all of us to contribute. I just, again just my own opinion, feel starting with a story and building your universe off of that as a skeleton is a better way to go about things than the "outward in" approach being discussed.