Amazon Prime Amazon Fallout series.

[Scooby Doo]

I cannot convey through words alone how livid I am about this. I legitimately think modern writes are incapable of imagining fictional worlds due to some sort of mental deficiency because every... single... fucking adaptation of anything shoots the world building in the head and shrinks the world to a pitiful, grey blob stage that they can easily convey on whatever stage they're using because heaven fucking forbid that there be a world outside of whatever dreary shit these parasitical shits can cough up.

Fuck this gay earth.

I retroactively retract all the shit I've given you about the NCR in Autumn Morning. If this is how the professional stewards of the setting are going to treat one of the core components of the universe... fuck! I knew Bethesda couldn't be trusted to pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel, but I figured they'd at least stay inside of the bowling bumpers out of greed and self interest if nothing else.

The advancement of the NCR was literally a critical part of Fallout's guts. That humanity could rebuild from the apocalypse and adapt to a new world. Fucking Bethesda pointed this out in Fallout 3 with Moira. It also added a cool western vibe to the setting where the ever encroaching reach of civilization slowly forces the wild wasteland to change, die, or move on. Removing the NCR was always the coward's way out, so I guess I'm the sucker for being surprised.

Dude the NCR still exists and the would have been successor for the NCR found Fusion Tech. You literally didn't pay attention to the plot.


Let me break it down for you

-Shady Sands got nuked, killing 30,000+ and a lot of their leadership
-Civil war between people who want to lead the NCR is preventing order
-NCR Antagonist is going to rebuild the NCR by using Cold Fusion tech which will completely undo all the damage from losing Shady Sands and then some.
-NCR Antagonist literally built a device to power the rest of the NCR city outskirts up at the season finale.

That's it. It still fucking exists

The original cause, that China was on the brink losing and just decided to flip the bird on the way out, always made a thousand times more sense than any other explanation that's been shat out since then. The constant retconing of the cause into increasing pointless and convoluted reasons is beyond asinine.

That hasn't changed, Vault Tech just made sure any attempts to de-escalate tensions from having China nuke would fail.

That's what happened, Vault Tec made sure China would resort to nuking.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

That's fine if you don't like the path they decided to go with but to argue that it doesn't make sense is just being purposely ignorant.

Fallout isn't a conventional setting, you're lucky people are able to survive with all the giant mutants out there and irradiated lands/water. Sometimes you're not able to stop wars from occuring, to expect everything to go perfectly is ridiculous, the NCR managing to get as far as it did was honestly a miracle.

Ain't no one going to be able to sustain a population of 700,000 (Even America was barely able to handle the Flint Michigan crisis and they have significantly more resources than the NCR) with irradiated territory if anything it makes less sense for the NCR to exist than anything Bethesda done if we're going to argue about realism.

You're exaggerating the setting. Outside of a handful of 'hot spots' there's actually not really any radiation out in the wasteland. Shockingly the radiation levels of nuclear explosions tends to go to nill after 200 years.

And the big mutant critters? Well they actually don't like getting shot at, they tend to leave humans alone most of the time. A big strong lad has a good chance of killing a Radscorpion 1v1 with primitive weapons, and the addition of firearms makes all but the nastiest of critters like Deathclaws into a non-issue.

Fallout people aren't lucky to have survived, they survived with almost guaranteed chances because they had a plethora of old-tech laying around, plus enough industry to supply their own needs. They did what humans do best, adapt and conquer.

It's why the super mutants are an out of context threat, now humanity has to deal with what are basically humans but superior.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Also to my knowledge how the war ended is a mystery circa FO1-2-NV, so nobody knows just what happened. Granted its implied China nuked first, but that's not a guarantee.

 

[Navarro]

I retroactively retract all the shit I've given you about the NCR in Autumn Morning. If this is how the professional stewards of the setting are going to treat one of the core components of the universe... fuck! I knew Bethesda couldn't be trusted to pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel, but I figured they'd at least stay inside of the bowling bumpers out of greed and self interest if nothing else.

New Vegas really started the spiral of the NCR being portrayed as incompetent and useless. I mean, in Autumn Morning and sequel I'm trying to portray them more competently than the vast majority of Fallout fanfics, which just have them helpless against an army of Roman LARPers in football gear.

Part of the point of the Autumn Morning sequel is that the big war, while it's cool and all, is something of a tragedy - caused by a history of bad blood, ideological conflict, the ambitions of politicians, etc. and neither faction are clear cut "good guys" or "bad guys". Much more like WW1 than WW2. Maybe Autumn winning FO3 caused a lot more bloodshed than would have happened if he'd lost, no matter how "good" the Enclave has become since then ...

 

[Scooby Doo]

You're exaggerating the setting. Outside of a handful of 'hot spots' there's actually not really any radiation out in the wasteland. Shockingly the radiation levels of nuclear explosions tends to go to nill after 200 years.

It goes to nill for modern bombs that are meant to be clean, Fallout bombs are explicitly even in FO Obsidian canon dirty. (More dirty than powerful)

The majority of the world is heavily irradiated dude

And the big mutant critters? Well they actually don't like getting shot at, they tend to leave humans alone most of the time. A big strong lad has a good chance of killing a Radscorpion 1v1 with primitive weapons, and the addition of firearms makes all but the nastiest of critters like Deathclaws into a non-issue.

Yeah let me just rebuild the entire Military Industrial Complex over night to hunt those creatures
🤷

It's not like there's more wild life than immediate ammunition available, not counting the Ghouls and Super mutants and Raiders who will also be hindering development

Fallout people aren't lucky to have survived, they survived with almost guaranteed chances because they had a plethora of old-tech laying around, plus enough industry to supply their own needs. They did what humans do best, adapt and conquer.

Yeah they did actually, you're literally arguing for oh well they had a lot of conveniently placed equipment (Which is literally luck, none of the Vault Dwellers expected military equipment and depos to still be available for them) that didn't get damage by nukes so obviously this should apply to everyone across the US.

It's why the super mutants are an out of context threat, now humanity has to deal with what are basically humans but superior.

In the West Coast they are not an out of context problem because they can be reasoned with but not in the East, human survivors in the East were disorganized due to less intact industry and less manpower not to mention settlements were raided constantly by Super mutants until the Brotherhood arrived

 

[Scooby Doo]

New Vegas really started the spiral of the NCR being portrayed as incompetent and useless. I mean, in Autumn Morning and sequel I'm trying my best to portray them more competently than the vast majority of Fallout fanfics, which just have them helpless against an army of Roman LARPers in football gear.

The NCR remnants in the show actually put up a decent fight managing to kill a few Knights while showing better equipment than what the Mojave NCR had (Outside of Heavy Troopers or Rangers).

They literally had a automated AA Missile Launcher System on the roof and double mounted 50.cal machine gun turret covering a choke point.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

This show is trash, You can try to church this nonsensical plot up however you want but its clear Bethesda and the Amazon writers just wanted there to be Brotherhood of Steel and rubble.

 

[Navarro]

This show is trash, You can try to church this nonsensical plot up however you want but its clear Bethesda and the Amazon writers just wanted there to be Brotherhood of Steel and rubble.

Because that's all there is to Fallout, isn't there, the BoS standing in some rubble?

 

[Warmaster]

I think people who argue this are missing the point of Fallout a

There's also some external threat or asshole which is preventing the wasteland from not being the wasteland, it's the point of several antagonists dude IDK how so many Bethesda Haters miss the point. A lot of people didn't pay attention to the differences and circumstances of West Coast vs East Coast

Fallout East Coast had the Supermutants, Ghouls, Enclave AND Institute preventing safe expansion and it's only thanks to the efforts of the Brotherhood that they finally manage to make some progress in clearing the wastes (Which took them like two decades). Let's reiterate what it took to make minor progress, it took potentially HUNDREDS of highly trained and experienced operatives in a light tank equivalent armor just to make a small section of the East.

Appalachia is presumably a lost cause because of a fungal plague and giant colonies of super radiated plane sized Bats, like what the fuck do you expect a post apocalypse society to do against a nest of hundreds of these?

Fallout West Coast only got as far as it did because of the Protagonist macguffing away the Enclave and Master both of which would have wiped out the NCR were it not for them (The Supermutants in the West Coast decided to fuck off unlike the ones in the East). The West Coast also had an advantage of you know having one of the most populated vaults in the setting?


Most vaults in all of the Fallout canon are mentioned to only sustain a few hundred people or less, the Vaults in the West Coast had a much higher average than the ones in the East Coast so of course it's easier for them to build up quicker than the East (Not mentioning that the Supermutants in the West are reasonable unlike the East) Vault 13 alone starts with 1,000 people which is significantly higher above the average vault populations.


To put this into perspective three East Coat Vaults
Vault 92 (245 Vault Dwellers)
Vault 106 (Less than 200)
Vault 108 (475)

Still less than a thousand. Higher Population = More Protection = More manpower to rebuild. The West is able to build a civilization because all their threats were handled sooner and they had more factors helping them than the East Coast. Furthermore, the NCR in the Fallout TV show aren't in a "Wasteland" they're in a offscreen civil war

(Their Capital legitimately got nuked that's why it looks like shit, the series gives us a brief glimpse of the capital looking like a utopia BEFORE it got nuked) and the whole fucking point of the season was to re-unify the NCR stronger than ever with the Cold Fusion tech (Which would let them recover from Shady Sands really quick).




TLDR;

Stop bitching about the NCR, their capital got nuked which presumably killed tens of thousands according to the population billboard on top of a lot of the NCR leadership which had multiple people fighting over leadership until the main antagonist finds a way to unify them and would have rebuilt the NCR practically over night had their plan worked.

So what your saying is that it should be in apocalypse mode 24/7 because war never changes?

You do realize the message is stronger civilization rebuilding and engaging in the same old conflicts? Like the NCR engaging in imperialism in Nevada? Or the Legion crossing the same old roads? Survival and barely hanging onto life isn't war. Its just survival.

I'm not criticizing the plausibility of Fallout's more eccentric plot lines and why everything is shit. I'm criticizing the writers making it shit for centuries on end with no light at the end of the tunnel.

You quoted a very selective piece of my statement. I specifically mentioned the legacy of the games. I hardcore defended Bethesda's Fallout titles. I like Fallout 3 and 4. I bought 76 and played the hell out of it.

I may not have liked the choices in the games but I still considered it Fallout. The show shits on the legacy. It uses retcons to do it.

I won't defend that.

Dude the NCR still exists and the would have been successor for the NCR found Fusion Tech. You literally didn't pay attention to the plot.


Let me break it down for you

-Shady Sands got nuked, killing 30,000+ and a lot of their leadership
-Civil war between people who want to lead the NCR is preventing order
-NCR Antagonist is going to rebuild the NCR by using Cold Fusion tech which will completely undo all the damage from losing Shady Sands and then some.
-NCR Antagonist literally built a device to power the rest of the NCR city outskirts up at the season finale.

That's it. It still fucking exists

-No NCR army seen.
-No industrial base seen
-Looks like a wasteland despite it being a proper nation state for awhile(It might look like this in very specific places but let's be honest... the entire NCR probably looks like this.)

I miss the NCR from FNV. They had an actual army with standard uniforms, armor and weapons.

I mean hell. I mentioned it in my post you quoted. They brought it back to Fallout 1/2 levels of quality of life. The capital got nuked. Doesn't mean the other NCR states dissolved into nothingness. They certainly wouldn't allow the BoS to goof around doing whatever.

If it truly was like a civil war then it would not look like its a bunch of hooligans shooting at each other.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It goes to nill for modern bombs that are meant to be clean, Fallout bombs are explicitly even in FO Obsidian canon dirty. (More dirty than powerful)

The majority of the world is heavily irradiated dude

Except it isn't. The number of radioactive places in FO1-2 is like a handful lmao. Most of which are super localized because it's literal green radioactive slime out of a 50's comic.
Even in NV there's barely any radiation, even if it's more present than FO1-2.
It's only FO3-4 where weirdly half the world is some sort of radioactive hellhole.

Yeah let me just rebuild the entire Military Industrial Complex over night to hunt those creatures
🤷

It's not like there's more wild life than immediate ammunition available, not counting the Ghouls and Super mutants and Raiders who will also be hindering development

Ghouls are primarily friendly, and isolationist. They aren't harmful, even the feral ones aren't a threat to anybody who can kick ass and take names. THEY CANNOT EVEN RUN! Super mutants are a dying breed after FO1 and are friendly for the most part post-Fallout 2. Raiders are a threat yes, but also not too common in number outside of generic random encounters that every RPG requires.

You're exaggerating how dangerous the wasteland is, if it was as dangerous as FO3-4 depict, nobody would be alive because 90% of humanity are bloodthristy psychos and deathclaws live 20 feet away from populated areas.

Yeah they did actually, you're literally arguing for oh well they had a lot of conveniently placed equipment (Which is literally luck, none of the Vault Dwellers expected military equipment and depos to still be available for them) that didn't get damage by nukes so obviously this should apply to everyone across the US.

Pre-War was so militarized that households had robots capable of cutting people to pieces while being bullet resistant. They weren't lucky to have all that shit laying around, it was guaranteed.

In the West Coast they are not an out of context problem because they can be reasoned with but not in the East, human survivors in the East were disorganized due to less intact industry and less manpower not to mention settlements were raided constantly by Super mutants until the Brotherhood arrived

East? I don't recall any Fallout games set there. Can you explain this?

 

[Scooby Doo]

Reminder that Shady Sands is rubble because it got literally nuked not because the show writers forgot it was a NCR capital.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Because that's all there is to Fallout, isn't there, the BoS standing in some rubble?

Seems to be the case from the perspective of modern hacks, I mean writers.

 

[Navarro]

So what your saying is that it should be in apocalypse mode 24/7 because war never changes?

You do realize the message is stronger civilization rebuilding and engaging in the same old conflicts? Like the NCR engaging in imperialism in Nevada? Or the Legion crossing the same old roads? Survival and barely hanging onto life isn't war. Its just survival.

I'm not criticizing the plausibility of Fallout's more eccentric plot lines and why everything is shit. I'm criticizing the writers making it shit for centuries on end with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Yes, the message of Fallout is that even a nuclear war won't change human nature. It isn't a grand Year Zero, clearing the ground to build a utopia free of corruption and violence.

People will still behave the same general way, engage in the same conflicts with each other even as they rebuild civilisation. War, war never changes.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Shady sands isn't even in the right geographic location in the show lmao.

 

[Warmaster]

Reminder that Shady Sands is rubble because it got literally nuked not because the show writers forgot it was a NCR capital.

Ah yes. We're only criticizing them randomly being rubble while not realizing they got nuked.

We aren't criticizing the choice of nuking the NCR and keeping everything dirty, rubble and irradiated. Certainly not the retcons. Retcons are awesome. Legacy of Fallout 1,2 and New Vegas? Worthless.

Shady sands isn't even in the right geographic location in the show lmao.

Even wiki skimmers would know that lol

I don't even like the NCR. Why am I the one defending them so damn hard.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Whatever Fallout is dead for me, Bethesda has proven themselves time and time again to be incapable of making a decent game and Microsoft will just gobble them up and allow the IP's to collect dust once they do inevitably go out of business.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Whatever Fallout is dead for me, Bethesda has proven themselves time and time again to be incapable of making a decent game and Microsoft will just gobble them up and allow the IP's to collect dust once they do inevitably go out of business.

Hang in there buddy, FO1-2 will always be waiting for you.

 

[Scooby Doo]

So what your saying is that it should be in apocalypse mode 24/7 because war never changes?

No I'm arguing don't expect New York fucking city in an extremely hostile and resource scare environment.
😂

You do realize the message is stronger civilization rebuilding and engaging in the same old conflicts? Like the NCR engaging in imperialism in Nevada? Or the Legion crossing the same old roads? Survival and barely hanging onto life isn't war. Its just survival.

Yeah and that's what's been done in Bethesda canon, factions fail then rebuild then fail. It's literally a cycle.

I'm not criticizing the plausibility of Fallout's more eccentric plot lines and why everything is shit. I'm criticizing the writers making it shit for centuries on end with no light at the end of the tunnel.

I just think you're being extremely nitpicky over the most trivial shit tbh 🤷

You quoted a very selective piece of my statement. I specifically mentioned the legacy of the games. I hardcore defended Bethesda's Fallout titles. I like Fallout 3 and 4. I bought 76 and played the hell out of it.

I may not have liked the choices in the games but I still considered it Fallout. The show shits on the legacy. It uses retcons to do it.

It's literally only retconned 2 things, only one of which is an actual serious issue (Timeline) other then that it's been faithful

I won't defend that.


-No NCR army seen.
-No industrial base seen
-Looks like a wasteland despite it being a proper nation state for awhile(It might look like this in very specific places but let's be honest... the entire NCR probably looks like this.)

Because you didn't want to pay attention
1. No NCR Army seen because there's no official authority to organize them only remnants that follow different leaders
2. No industrial base seen because Season 1. Takes place on the nuked Capital of NCR so there wouldn't be a visible industrial base, despite this the NCR Antagonist connects a Cold Fusion device to power up cities off in the distance.

It looks like a wasteland because it got fucking nuked???????

I miss the NCR from FNV. They had an actual army with standard uniforms, armor and weapons.

The NCR Remnants are literally better equipped than the Mojave NCR and didn't need 10:1 odds to kill Knights, if anything they're more impressive for the circumstances they were in.

I mean hell. I mentioned it in my post you quoted. They brought it back to Fallout 1/2 levels of quality of life. The capital got nuked. Doesn't mean the other NCR states dissolved into nothingness. They certainly wouldn't allow the BoS to goof around doing whatever.

The Brotherhood launched a surprise attack at the observatory against an opponent that other NCR officials wanted dead.

Context is important

If it truly was like a civil war then it would not look like its a bunch of hooligans shooting at each other.

It's literally one faction of the NCR remnant fighting a full Brotherhood expeditionary force.

 

[f1onagher]

Dude the NCR still exists and the would have been successor for the NCR found Fusion Tech. You literally didn't pay attention to the plot.


Let me break it down for you

-Shady Sands got nuked, killing 30,000+ and a lot of their leadership
-Civil war between people who want to lead the NCR is preventing order
-NCR Antagonist is going to rebuild the NCR by using Cold Fusion tech which will completely undo all the damage from losing Shady Sands and then some.
-NCR Antagonist literally built a device to power the rest of the NCR city outskirts up at the season finale.

That's it. It still fucking exists


That hasn't changed, Vault Tech just made sure any attempts to de-escalate tensions from having China nuke would fail.

That's what happened, Vault Tec made sure China would resort to nuking.

Friend, I don't mean to be rude, but about 50% of the posts in this thread is you stanning for the show. I'm (intellectually) happy you enjoyed it, but this world building is shallow and facile. As deep as the props used at the back of a stage. IPs have lost the ability to convey changes, stakes, and developments across more than one type of media and this is a problem across the industry and has been for some time. This one just happens to hit close to home for me. Note, I'm not some New Vegas junkie or F1 and F2 purist, I still enjoy Fallout 3 and think 4 had plenty of redeeming qualities. But between 76 and now this its clear that Bethesda gives nary a fuck about stewarding their IP further than the next cheap piece of Chinese plastic crudely shaped like something from my nostalgic childhood.

I encourage you to grow some standards.

New Vegas really started the spiral of the NCR being portrayed as incompetent and useless. I mean, in Autumn Morning and sequel I'm trying to portray them more competently than the vast majority of Fallout fanfics, which just have them helpless against an army of Roman LARPers in football gear.

Part of the point of the Autumn Morning sequel is that the big war, while it's cool and all, is something of a tragedy - caused by a history of bad blood, ideological conflict, the ambitions of politicians, etc. and neither faction are clear cut "good guys" or "bad guys". Much more like WW1 than WW2. Maybe Autumn winning FO3 caused a lot more bloodshed than would have happened if he'd lost, no matter how "good" the Enclave has become since then ...

The issue is that there is nothing after NV. The NCR having a bad decade or a local weakness is more than fine. Nations are not universal monoliths and all organization are complex and have lots of people doing lots of things with differing outcomes. Unfortunately Bethesda has just let the west coast idle meaning that all we have of it is a static snapshot from the end of New Vegas. This isn't helped by how shallow and half hearted the world building on the east coast has been. The only material development was the BoS evolving into what looks to be a functional nation state, but we don't know any details because the writers refused to elaborate on anything beyond the shallowest vibes with the BoS in Fallout 4.

My point being we haven't heard anything from the NCR since the end of NV until now. And now they're nuked, functionally insolvent, and playing hind fiddle to the product placement.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

It's literally one faction of the NCR remnant fighting a full Brotherhood expeditionary force.

The Brotherhood basically ceases to exist after FO2, how could they even HAVE an 'expeditionary force' lmao.