Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

Lord Invictus

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Speaking of bible PODs. How about this.

the kingdom of Israel does not split after Solomon’s death-going to his heir Jeroboam.

This means Israel and Judah remain united going into the first millennium BC.

First effects are probably the Israelites retain hegemony over neighboring Semitic people’s-Edom, Ammon, Moab, and so on.

Assuming the Israelite monarchy lasts another few hundred years intact-it should have the loyalty of these groups-if only sullenly.

I can see Assyria still smashing Israel, but with Israel united-probably takes longer due to the Israelites forming anti Assyrian coalitions in the southern Levant.

Maybe Jerusalem doesn’t become as important, or maybe it’s just the southern capital.

I’d be interested in a TL where Israel retains its independence in the face of Assyria and Egypt. Through war and diplomacy.

Though the butterflies going into the Babylonian period and afterwards are impossible to predict.
 

gral

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Speaking of bible PODs. How about this.

the kingdom of Israel does not split after Solomon’s death-going to his heir Jeroboam.
My understanding is you probably butterflied away Christianity(at the very least, it will not be Christianity as we know it).
 

Lord Invictus

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Unless of course you believe Christianity is divinely pre-ordained. But that’s for a different day and place.

An independent Israel doesn’t change the ANE that much-except in being a buffer state in between empires.
 

gral

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Unless of course you believe Christianity is divinely pre-ordained. But that’s for a different day and place.
Yes, that's why I said it would not be Christianity as we know - I think there would be changes in form, even though the underlying message would be about the same.
 

Rizkyss

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What if Jayakatwang coup is thwart? How did the war against the Mongol play out?
 

ATP

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Poland could be stronger, but also weaker.Or not-existing.
When Poland could cease to exist:
1.In 1034 Russia and German Emperor with czech prince attacked and defeated Poland.Shortlt after that, ruler died and state ceased to exist for few years.People come back to worshipp pagan gods.

But both German and Russia rulers was christian,so they lend some soldiers to new prince, who re-established our state.
What if they do not do that ? there would be Mazovia independent state, and rest would be annexed by russians, czech and germans.
Russia would be conqered by mongols just like in OTL, but Czech could become more powerfull.If not,we would have weaker Moscow,and more german states in middle Europe.Maybe german rulers would take over Nowogrod republic,too.
 

Lord Invictus

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Here a few PODs:

Longer lasting crusader states-not necessarily to today but into the early modern era, maybe holding out as late the 17th century or longer. Would depend on where they were but I’d think you’d need to butterfly the ottomans and Mamelukes as well as a united Islamic front which is really really hard to do, not to mention the mongol wrecking ball. Having the crusader states last until the present day is even harder. As your changing so much middle eastern and European history.

Saxon restoration-a lot of Saxon nobles fled to Constantinople after the Norman conquest, some supposedly established a domain in modern crimea. What if a descendant or relative of Edward the Confessor and Harold Godwinson managed to raise an army sometime in the 11th century or maybe a little later and reclaim the English throne? Perhaps with Byzantine backing and soldiers from Eastern Europe including Pechenegs, Cumans, Turkish mercenaries, and the like.

The inter war era never results in WW2 or the Great Depression. Basically the polarization of the inter war era never reaches its crescendo. The left and right in Europe, Japan, and the like are still hostile but economic development continues without the depression, this leads to some interesting effects. The Soviet Union is unable to export revolution in Europe, but is gradually brought in from the cold without the war, wherein the general situation stabilizes overall. This leads to the colonial empires lasting much longer, and the US’s rise to global super power never occurs-it still is inordinately powerful but not the sole super power. With Weimar Germany eventually stabilizing-the main left and right factions coming to a sort of vis a vis with continued economic growth, though tensions in Germany remain high. As German nationalism and German communism become somewhat incorporated into the system of parliamentary politics without the street fighting. Same in other European countries-the threat of communist revolution or nationalist uprisings/fascist ascendancy is mitigated by the lack of a Great Depression. Europe is more socially conservative while also implementing social welfare policies for the poorest. This under cuts the appeal of the far left with most communist parties agreeing to participate in parliamentary politics. This ensures there is no rightist backlash, at least not beyond the sphere of culture anyway. Probably this doesn’t last forever, as the colonial wars will coalesce or another economic crisis will happen. But any Second World War starts to look very different without a depression and the forties being peaceful mostly on the European continent.

Successful Spanish conquest of India and the East Indies. The Iberian Union never breaks up and Spain manages to drive out the Dutch and English, and by 1800 has a Viceroyalty of India and the East Indies, becoming fantastically rich, controlling both most of the Americas and everything from the Philippines to Gujurat, directly or indirectly.

Achaemenid conquest of Greece. The Persians win and with a mixture of generous terms and savage brutality gain the submission of the Greek poleis in Europe. The Persians are not defeated at either Salamis or Plataea, and manage to bring Sparta and Athens both to heel. The Greek cities are allowed to retain their local governments but must report to a satrap appointed for the region. Who mostly just collects taxes and keeps an army to ensure they don’t rise up. The Persians vassalize and conquer Epirus and get into southern Illyria. The Greeks are integrated without too much fuss into the Persian system, with the Grecian colonies in Italy and Massilia getting a lot of new refugees. Leading to a fierce Greco-Carthaginian series of wars. Eventually ending in a Greek hegemony(loosely) in the western Mediterranean around say what would be 10 BC or so. With coalitions of Greek city states in Magna Grecia, Massilia, and North Africa being loosely aligned but often fighting fiercely. Carthage ends up destroyed and it’s people subjugated. Though it’s not as total a destruction as the one the romans did, with a Punic-Hellene culture emerging of sorts in North Africa and Iberia-and inter marriages between Greek nobles and Punic women-mostly to solidify control of Punic colonies. The Greek and Punic pantheons syncretize and the practice of human sacrifice gradually fades away. This isn’t everywhere and in Magna Grecia, the Punic-Greek culture is seen with contempt. The local people’s of Italy, southern Gaul, and Iberia Hellenize. This leads to formations of kingdoms in the interior. While a new dynasty replaces the Achaemenids. Who have now secured Eastern Libya and the Black Sea coast.
 

HistoricalWaifus

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Got the basic timeline of this alt-history nation of Sagallo, based on the failed Russian colony in Djibouti. Just a little “what if” scenario done primarily for fun.

1889 - 1918: Colonial era.
The Colony of Sagallo is established, the Franco-Sagalloan War is fought in 1890 to Sagallo’s victory. Historically, this is where the real Sagallo was destroyed. The First Sagalloan-Italian War is fought in 1895 also to Sagallo’s victory, laying claim to a sizable portion of Eritrea in the process. With the defeat of two major European powers, the Russian Empire establishes itself as a colonial power.

1918 - 1950: “Free State” era. With the onset of the Russian Civil War, political turbulence erupts in Sagallo as to how the colony ought to respond. The Military Security Council steps in and declares martial law, under the leadership of Gen. Stepa Barinyakov. Barinyakov’s leadership during this time holds a divisive place in Sagalloan history. Some see him as a ruthless authoritarian, who owned the press and banned opposing political parties. Others see him as the founder of modern Sagallo, since his policies promoted literacy, desegregation, economic revitalization and trade. During the Free State era, Sagallo became a powerful player in East Africa. The country’s role in the defeat of Italian and German forces during WWII meant that Ethiopia was effectively gifted to Barinyakov’s government in the post-war partitioning. Sagallo also seized the rest of Eritrea during the campaigns. The Ethiopian Acquisition meant that Sagallo was then among the largest countries in Africa.

1950 - 1955: First Civil War. The Second World War put a lot of strain on the people of Sagallo, and Barinyakov’s stranglehold on the political landscape was beginning to slip. The people wanted change, and the USSR discretely begun to sponsor pro-communist and pro-reunification movements within Sagallo. Stepa Barinyakov died in early 1950, passing of natural causes in his sleep, and setting off a chain of events that would lead to a civil war within the country. Barinyakov had carefully consolidated power to the Military Security Council, more specifically its chairman. When he died, disagreement over the succession of power caused the Security Council to divide. Communist rebels sided with the winning faction, reorganizing the country into the Soviet Republic of Sagallo.

1955 - 1971: Communist era. With the new USSR-backed communists in power, things rapidly changed. Food production was reorganized for export, sent back to Russia to supply factory workers. This left little for rural communities to survive on, meaning food shortages were common. In addition to the new farming policies, espionage groups set up many outposts in Sagallo to launch cross-border operations into central Africa. Hoping to secure raw materials, especially those useful for nuclear weapon manufacturing. In response, the CIA begun a counter-intelligence operation to fund anti-communist militias in the CAR and Congo. The USSR’s institutional atheism also begun creating tension with the country’s Christian and Muslim population. 1965, the Holy Defense League (or HDL) and the Islamic Resistance Front (or IRF) were established.

1971 - 1977: Second civil war/republican era. Leadership of both HDL and IRF decided more could be done together than by infighting. The Second Sagalloan Civil War begun in when both sides signed a treaty to become the United Defense Front, or UDF. The rebels begun a guerrilla war against the Red Army, gaining traction and international support as their operations expanded. The civil war created a sense of national and religious unity in Sagallo, as all had suffered under the USSR. The Red Army officially surrendered in 1977, ending the war and once again reorganizing the country into the Republic of Sagallo

1977 - Today: Modern Sagallo. Joining the United Nations in 1980 and the African Union in 2005, Sagallo today stands as a trading power, taking advantage of the trade route through the Suez Canal. Sagalloan troops have an armed presence in many countries, either through UN deployments or independent agreements with other nations. An enforced border with Somalia and recently South Sudan, along with direct deployments in Nigeria to assist the NAF in suppressing Boko Haram foot-soldiers. Sagallo also sees a presence in Syria, looking to stem possible cross-border activities from IS-aligned militants before it becomes an issue. Despite its high military presence, Sagallo sees a large influx of foreign tourists and immigrants every year. A vibrant mix of Russians, Ethiopians, Eritreans, Somalians, Kenyans, Sudanese, Egyptians, Arabians and Yemeni refugees, a smattering of Europeans and an increasing number of tech sphere workers from India as of the early 2000′s.
 

ATP

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Interesting - but taking over Ethiopia after WW2 seems unlikely.Unless, russians orthodox made deal with ethiopian church.
But in that case, commies would not take over.
 

manfromatlantis

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1.How would u.s. relations with Russia develop in the 20th century had the whites won Russain revolution?

2.Kennedy picks florida senator George Smathers R.M. IN 1960 instead of Johnson..
 

AndrewJTalon

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What if Operation Long Jump had actually been real and attempted by the Nazis to assassinate or kidnap Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt at the Tehran Conference?
 

CarlManvers2019

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I think I've said this before but

What would have happened if instead of heading the Nazi Party, Hitler made use of the local Socialists/Communists and became their leadership? I've heard stuff about Stalin NOT tolerating a possible rival and swallowing up Germany quick, before
 
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