AHC: "The French Ulcer" - the Franco-Prussian war becomes irresolvable/interminable after Prussian military victories

[raharris1973]

Here's the challenge: Have the Franco-Prussian war turn into the Prussian-led coalition's version of the peninsular war, a five years plus guerrilla affair in which the French, or no 'French' force that can hold its own for five minutes without Prussian protection, will agree to Prussian terms.

 

[Buba]

Interesting.
Considering the French mindset - far from ASB.
It is not that far from OTL - the newly formed IIIrd Republic kept on forming new armies after the Imperial Army had surrendered at Sedan and Metz. Which IIRC baffled the Germans ...

I'm fairly sure that the Northgermanfederation + friends would have financial problems in keeping a large army in the field, thus leading to looting imposing contribiutions (see Leipzig 1866) and general heavy handedness towards the population, thus fueling resistance.

However, the difference is that unlike Napoleon in Spain, the Northgermanfederation + friends did not have ambitions to subdue the whole country. Hence I wonder how long would it take Bismarck to beat into Wilhelm's skull that "treaties are overrated" and the Prussians retreat to a line of their choosing and "dig in" there.

 

[raharris1973]

Interesting.
Considering the French mindset - far from ASB.
It is not that far from OTL - the newly formed IIIrd Republic kept on forming new armies after the Imperial Army had surrendered at Sedan and Metz. Which IIRC baffled the Germans ...

I'm fairly sure that the Northgermanfederation + friends would have financial problems in keeping a large army in the field, thus leading to looting imposing contribiutions (see Leipzig 1866) and general heavy handedness towards the population, thus fueling resistance.

However, the difference is that unlike Napoleon in Spain, the Northgermanfederation + friends did not have ambitions to subdue the whole country. Hence I wonder how long would it take Bismarck to beat into Wilhelm's skull that "treaties are overrated" and the Prussians retreat to a line of their choosing and "dig in" there.

I do want to see continued exploration of a war protracted by years.

But, you bring up an interesting point with the "treaties are overrated" option. If the Prussians, North Germans and South Germans instead figure they'll never get one, and retreat back to a line of their own choosing and "dig in" where would they want to dig it? Pretty much where they imposed the the border at the Frankfurt treaty, or someplace else?

 

[stevep]

Interesting.
Considering the French mindset - far from ASB.
It is not that far from OTL - the newly formed IIIrd Republic kept on forming new armies after the Imperial Army had surrendered at Sedan and Metz. Which IIRC baffled the Germans ...

I'm fairly sure that the Northgermanfederation + friends would have financial problems in keeping a large army in the field, thus leading to looting imposing contribiutions (see Leipzig 1866) and general heavy handedness towards the population, thus fueling resistance.

However, the difference is that unlike Napoleon in Spain, the Northgermanfederation + friends did not have ambitions to subdue the whole country. Hence I wonder how long would it take Bismarck to beat into Wilhelm's skull that "treaties are overrated" and the Prussians retreat to a line of their choosing and "dig in" there.

Agree with that plus the other big difference is that the Spanish knew they weren't alone with Britain supporting them heavily and for much of the time other nations also fighting Napoleon. Here its difficult to see who would support continued French resistance, especially since its being lead by a republican government which would unpopular to many monarchical states.

 

[raharris1973]

If the Prussians need to choose a zone to unilaterally occupy and clear of resistance, where will they draw the line? At the Vosges? At the fortress line of Verdun, Toul? At the Moselle river? At the old western border of the HRE and Lothariangia? Will the Prussians extract contributions from the occupied land by conscripting labor from the occupied population, or suspected villagers/townspeople suspected of supporting francs-tireurs and sending in their own labor, which Germany had plenty of, to work the mines and farms of occupied France?

 

[WolfBear]

Here's the challenge: Have the Franco-Prussian war turn into the Prussian-led coalition's version of the peninsular war, a five years plus guerrilla affair in which the French, or no 'French' force that can hold its own for five minutes without Prussian protection, will agree to Prussian terms.

What's simply to prevent the Prussians from ethnically cleansing northeastern France and even Paris in such a scenario while leaving the rest of France to its fate? Or, alternatively, making the Vosges Mountains the new Franco-Prussian border and ethnically cleansing the territories to the east of them?

 

[ATP]

What's simply to prevent the Prussians from ethnically cleansing northeastern France and even Paris in such a scenario while leaving the rest of France to its fate? Or, alternatively, making the Vosges Mountains the new Franco-Prussian border and ethnically cleansing the territories to the east of them?

They still was partially christian.They could do such things in Africa to black people,but to other white peoples,even frogs? No!!!!

 

[stevep]

They still was partially christian.They could do such things in Africa to black people,but to other white peoples,even frogs? No!!!!

Christianity would have nothing to do with it as it rarely had in previous times. The economic and political costs would be most likely to sink such an idea. You would have a France determined to fight if your trying to deport about half their empire and also opposition from much of the rest of Europe. Also while some fanatics might suggest such an idea its unlikely to be popular with the people paying the massive resulting bills and those being informed that their sons have been killed trying to maintain such a operation.

 

[ATP]

Christianity would have nothing to do with it as it rarely had in previous times. The economic and political costs would be most likely to sink such an idea. You would have a France determined to fight if your trying to deport about half their empire and also opposition from much of the rest of Europe. Also while some fanatics might suggest such an idea its unlikely to be popular with the people paying the massive resulting bills and those being informed that their sons have been killed trying to maintain such a operation.

Sadly,mostly true.Which woud not stop retreating germans from saing that they do that only becouse they are all bunch of good samaritans.

 

[Buba]

Some atrocities were par de course - as le gueurre c'est le guerre and all that - but ethnic cleansing (of other Europeans, as noted above) was not in the European mindset ... yet. But give it a generation or two

I apollogise for all atrocities committed against the French language ...

 

[WolfBear]

Christianity would have nothing to do with it as it rarely had in previous times. The economic and political costs would be most likely to sink such an idea. You would have a France determined to fight if your trying to deport about half their empire and also opposition from much of the rest of Europe. Also while some fanatics might suggest such an idea its unlikely to be popular with the people paying the massive resulting bills and those being informed that their sons have been killed trying to maintain such a operation.

Ethnically cleansing the French territories east of the Vosges Mountains would be a much more limited operation, though.