AHC: England tries to build a land empire in Europe after 1550 and succeeds for at least a couple decades

[raharris1973]

By ‘land empire in Europe I mean establish English rule either by direct annexation of European territory at least as large as Wales, or by forcing a personal monarchical union with a European territory at least that size, or imposition of a satellite political regime, either of which would be required to accept a perpetual occupying English garrison.

Double your points if this result is achieved after 1700

Triple if achieved after 1800

 

[Airedale260]

The Kingdom of Hannover says hi and this happened IRL from 1714-1837. Mission Accomplished.

Other than that, though, I don’t see a way to really accomplish that given England’s and later Britain’s history in those times. If you want to accomplish that you’re probably looking at either Henry V not dying in 1422 and reigning as king of both England and France, or a personality transplant in Henry II at the height of Angevin power.

 

[History Learner]

Corsica, Sicily and maybe Norway seem like possibilities.

 

[PsihoKekec]

They occupy Norway during Napoleonic wars?

 

[Buba]

IIRC Elizabeth was offered the crown of the Netherlands - here she accepts?
With the mighty Dutch navy ruling the waves and the inexhaustible English manpower for the army, the Revolting Dutch expel the Spanish tercios and the United Kingdom of Twenty Provinces (the 17 Originals, England, Wales and Ireland) can into space!
Bergen op Zoom becomes the capital of the new entity.

 

[stevep]

IIRC Elizabeth was offered the crown of the Netherlands - here she accepts?
With the mighty Dutch navy ruling the waves and the inexhaustible English manpower for the army, the Revolting Dutch expel the Spanish tercios and the United Kingdom of Twenty Provinces (the 17 Originals, England, Wales and Ireland) can into space!
Bergen op Zoom becomes the capital of the new entity.

That would be interesting as the united Netherlands would counter the population of England and Wales to a larger degree so provided they could avoid differing interests driving the two apart or the potential for neighbours to decide that "Damn that's too big a state for us to be happy with".

I wouldn't say "inexhaustible English manpower" as the united Netherlands probably had a larger population overall than England/Wales while for religious reasons Ireland is unlikely to supply much in this period. However provided that the union stays stable its going to be a lot more powerful, especially without the conflict between the two. As it was the Dutch drove us from what became the DEI and nearly gained large parts of the Portuguese empire in Brazil while the combined state would have an easier time expanding trade interests into India and N America/Caribbean I suspect.

 

[stevep]

The Kingdom of Hannover says hi and this happened IRL from 1714-1837. Mission Accomplished.

Other than that, though, I don’t see a way to really accomplish that given England’s and later Britain’s history in those times. If you want to accomplish that you’re probably looking at either Henry V not dying in 1422 and reigning as king of both England and France, or a personality transplant in Henry II at the height of Angevin power.

Better than that might be something during Edward III's reign, say he doesn't capture King John of France at the Battle_of_Poitiers in 1356 but still wins a stunning victory. With a tweak or two you could end up with an 'English' empire that rules England, Ireland and Wales and basically Aquitaine, Brittany and possibly other areas. [One of the many PODs I've played with. ] However that's really way before the desired time in the OP.

Other than that as you say Hanover fits the bill but given the development of English/British naval and merchant power even with Hanover it was often seen as more of a burden to be defended - at least by the Parliament - than a benefit. As such its difficult to see England/Britain desiring large land areas on continental Europe post ~ 1500.

 

[Buba]

My

"inexhaustible English manpower"

was tongue in cheek

As to the rest I fully agree - the English and Dutch combined could be a case of 2+2=5.
If the early stages of the Eighty Years War - where on occasion the Spanish managed to regain almost the entire territory, with the resulting loss of population and wealth - are butterflied away by a Rebel victory- then Netherlands are much richer and populous. England to it could be like Ireland to England ...

Maybe the United Twenty holds/captures Azores and/or Madeira during the 1580 takeover of Portugal?

 

[ATP]

IIRC Elizabeth was offered the crown of the Netherlands - here she accepts?
With the mighty Dutch navy ruling the waves and the inexhaustible English manpower for the army, the Revolting Dutch expel the Spanish tercios and the United Kingdom of Twenty Provinces (the 17 Originals, England, Wales and Ireland) can into space!
Bergen op Zoom becomes the capital of the new entity.

Could happened.Poor catholics there - Elisabeth tortured them to death in England,now would do the same in Netherland.
Well,thanks to reforms after Vaticanum 2 there is no more catholics there,so in long term,nothing change.

Somebody else idea,Norwegia - could happen,but when? maybe after 1720,when Sweden was defeated ?

 

[Buba]

Norway could be taken - as already mentioned (?) - during the Napoleonic Wars, when GB was at war with Denmark. Hence it could be conquered and occupied by GB then, this being later confirmed at the Congress of Vienna.
The question, of course, is - what for?
In WWI Norwegian timber for mine props became a strategic commodity, but was that apparent in 1815?
In this period I'd sooner see GB ending up with Corsica. Or Genua ...

Dutch Protestants and Catholics were gleefuly torturing one another anyway, there is no need for any Elizabeth Tudor's contribution.

 

[ATP]

Norway could be taken - as already mentioned (?) - during the Napoleonic Wars, when GB was at war with Denmark. Hence it could be conquered and occupied by GB then, this being later confirmed at the Congress of Vienna.
The question, of course, is - what for?
In WWI Norwegian timber for mine props became a strategic commodity, but was that apparent in 1815?
In this period I'd sooner see GB ending up with Corsica. Or Genua ...

Dutch Protestants and Catholics were gleefuly torturing one another anyway, there is no need for any Elizabeth Tudor's contribution.

Elisabeth first hanged them,then stop and castrate.Later take their entrails and burned it when they watched.Then did the same with heart.Nobody else did so.

But back to topic - why take Norwegia ? Royal Navy need timber,and it is close to Russia.And England was paranoid about cossak taking India,so they could want land near it.Good thing - Norvegia in that times could be no taken from land,so Russians could do nothing.

 

[stevep]

Norway was at the time subordinate to Denmark but was transferred to Sweden at the end of the conflict in part as compensation for losing Finland to Russia. It might have ended up under British rule but while the timber supply would have been attractive, possibly also the fishing would it have attracted Britain that much? The government and policy was more for insular possessions that would be easy to defend and have some strategic benefits and not sure they would be that interested.

Hanging, drawing and quartering was a punishment that dated back to at least 1352 and there may have been cases during the reign of Henry III, 1216-72, see Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered for details. Brutal punishment for people of another religion was all too common in those days unfortunately although Elizabeth seems to have been more restrained that many of her predecessors and frequently her subordinates.

Surprising it lasted until the Napoleonic wars and was on the statue book until later! Also cases occurred during the American revolution with both sides abusing opponents in such ways.

 

[raharris1973]

That would be interesting as the united Netherlands would counter the population of England and Wales to a larger degree so provided they could avoid differing interests driving the two apart or the potential for neighbours to decide that "Damn that's too big a state for us to be happy with".

I wouldn't say "inexhaustible English manpower" as the united Netherlands probably had a larger population overall than England/Wales while for religious reasons Ireland is unlikely to supply much in this period. However provided that the union stays stable its going to be a lot more powerful, especially without the conflict between the two. As it was the Dutch drove us from what became the DEI and nearly gained large parts of the Portuguese empire in Brazil while the combined state would have an easier time expanding trade interests into India and N America/Caribbean I suspect.

Elizabeth would be one of the monarchs within the HRE as well.

 

[stevep]

Elizabeth would be one of the monarchs within the HRE as well.

Good point. As well as probably being the most powerful Protestant noble in the HRE. That would upset the Hapsburgs and the potential for butterflies would be huge. Although if the union remains, possibly including Scotland if Liz has no children as OTL it could end up as the OTL Netherlands did after 1648 IIRC being withdrawn from the HRE.