ASOIAF/GOT Aegon The Unworthy dies before he can legitimize every single one of his bastards?

[CarlManvers2019]

How long will it take for House Blackfyre to rise still?

Given that Daemon was given Blackfyre and that was seen as a sign of trust and worthiness, everybody completely conveniently ignoring what an asshole and monster Aegon The Unworthy was and that he may have been doing it out of spite

And that Daeron was considered terrible for not being some alpha male buff warrior dude and the whole marriage with Dorne for peace

 

[Deleted member 88]

No Blackfyre rebellions, or at least far less successful ones. Without the touch of legitimacy they had been given. Daemon probably would still be pressured into rebelling given Daeron II’s pro Dornish policies-but without legal support hopefully they would be less supported and Daeron II would destroy him.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

No Blackfyre rebellions, or at least far less successful ones. Without the touch of legitimacy they had been given. Daemon probably would still be pressured into rebelling given Daeron II’s pro Dornish policies-but without legal support hopefully they would be less supported and Daeron II would destroy him.

I wonder how his PR would look like? TBH I think House Blackfyre and so many other Rebellions are pure-assholes who are doing things because they got "slighted" rather than actual socioeconomic policies hurting everybody else

Robert's Rebellion? Seems like supporters of the Mad King conveniently brush aside the whole blatant insanity of both Aerys and Rhaegar

 

[Deleted member 88]

Blackfyre apologists infuriate me. It’s basically rebelling and usurpation because some marcher Lords were unhappy with peace with Dorne, ambitious secondary houses(Like House Reyne), and because Daeron II was a bookish king who filled his court with scholars not warriors.

Daemon Blackfyre and his supporters got far more mercy than they ever deserved.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Blackfyre apologists infuriate me. It’s basically rebelling and usurpation because some marcher Lords were unhappy with peace with Dorne, ambitious secondary houses(Like House Reyne), and because Daeron II was a bookish king who filled his court with scholars not warriors.

Daemon Blackfyre and his supporters got far more mercy than they ever deserved.

I want to punch Ser Eustace Osgrey and Bittersteel if I ever have the chance

If you remember Ser Eustance Osgrey’s speech, he doesn’t talk at all about Dornish hurting smallfolk or innocent people dying, he cares more about some twisted sense of honor

Honestly TBF this sort of comes with the Deliberate Values Dissonance of the setting and the fact that in the end it’s mostly the nobility who matter, everybody else is a non-person

What would have the Blackfyre’s done for Westeros? Hell, what would or could the later Blackfyre Rebellions do FOR Westeros? Did any of them even have any revolutionary plans for political reform?

Nope. None at all. They just wanted to replace who’s ontop. Frankly, the fact that they went off to work for Slavers, makes it so that the Golden Company sounds scary if they ever have take over Westeros, they might institute and allow slavery

@AndrewJTalon
Say, I know you’re not continuing Greyjoy Allegro, but did the Golden Company ever continue thinking as to what to do regarding Westeros? Because last I remember, they declared for Egg only to start despairing after reading all the stuff in the Westerosi Newspapers

I don’t think many even thought of “What can we do to attract local houses when odds are the entirety of Westeros will be busy doing all this “industrialization” and we’ll just be seen as crazy warlords with nothing to offer”

 

[Deleted member 88]

The Blackfyres likely would have restarted war with Dorne, and their victory would have led to further instability down the line.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The Blackfyres likely would have restarted war with Dorne, and their victory would have led to further instability down the line.

I honestly wonder if any of them ever thought of that, or ever cared about the people around them beyond the nobility and maybe some non-nobility they are somewhat fond of

It’s all about “glory” and knowing they’re Lord or King and they probably don’t have much of a plan besides becoming King

Honestly, would be a pretty good idea for a scene in a fic

I know you dislike Uplifts, but I want to see some scene wherein a Lord or Warlord or would be Conqueror plans on taking over a developing Westeros. Meanwhile he’s actually wrecking many new infrastructure projects, both government and non-government sponsored and isn’t really even thinking of the economy

 

[Deleted member]

No Blackfyre rebellions, or at least far less successful ones. Without the touch of legitimacy they had been given. Daemon probably would still be pressured into rebelling given Daeron II’s pro Dornish policies-but without legal support hopefully they would be less supported and Daeron II would destroy him.

I agree, the lack of legitimacy would be an enormous improvement for the Crown. It would also arguably prevent the sequence of events which led to the Three-Eyed Raven taking the form and course he did....

 

[Deleted member 88]

A stronger Targaryen dynasty not concerned about the Blackfyres will be able to prevent renewed Ironborn reaving in the western coast, and also spend more time seeking to buffer and secure its future. Without the Blackfyre rebellions-capable Targaryen monarchs will be able to focus on other concerns.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

A stronger Targaryen dynasty not concerned about the Blackfyres will be able to prevent renewed Ironborn reaving in the western coast, and also spend more time seeking to buffer and secure its future. Without the Blackfyre rebellions-capable Targaryen monarchs will be able to focus on other concerns.

What would Daemon Waters/Blackfyre do while him and the rest of the stupid, petty, uncaring nobility who are pissed off about the peace with Dorne and the fact that Daeron’s a bookworm, do in the meanwhile?

Does Daemon have to give back Blackfyre? Does he go to Essos anyway and start his own Golden Company?

 

[Deleted member 88]

Sooner or later Daemon would rebel, or his sons would. Hopefully it would be a far less successful rebellion and House Blackfyre would end.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Sooner or later Daemon would rebel, or his sons would. Hopefully it would be a far less successful rebellion and House Blackfyre would end.

And good riddance too, I think the Blackfyres and their supporters were sort of an example of Westerosi Houses’ obsession with martial strength & conquest

No real thoughts about laws or future projects either

 

[Deleted member 88]

The Blackfyres are the epitome of what is wrong with Westeros’ noble class. A virulent strain of anti intellectualism, a disdain towards peace and non martial affairs, and boundless ambition tempered neither by religious restraint or the slightest hint of ethics.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The Blackfyres are the epitome of what is wrong with Westeros’ noble class. A virulent strain of anti intellectualism, a disdain towards peace and non martial affairs, and boundless ambition tempered neither by religious restraint or the slightest hint of ethics.

Or actual plans when it comes to RULING & ADMINISTRATION for one

It’s all just an endless conquest

Kinda ironic if Fake!Aegon really is a Blackfyre, he’s supposedly more educated than average & is supposed to bring peace to the Seven Kingdoms, if that really is Varys’ plan

Say, how do you think Daemon Blackfyre and his supporters would respond to this stuff about anti-intellectualism and the fact they’ll get who knows how many people from their Kingdoms killed, raped, orphaned, crippled, traumatized etc and whether or not they actually have plans to improve things

 

[Deleted member 88]

He won’t bring peace though. He will win his realm through conquest. And he won’t be able to take all of Westeros either-not the north or the west. Not the iron islands.

Varys is a villain. He killed a man bringing stability and trying to bind up Westeros to put his candidate on the throne.

I mean-Tyrion was badly whitewashed in te show, but it’s nothing compared to Varys-whose actions bring more war and destruction. “For the good of the realm” my ass.

Aegon is another one of those monsters sucking and biting the woman that is Westeros.

Not to mention being a false dragon and a false savior.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

He won’t bring peace though. He will win his realm through conquest. And he won’t be able to take all of Westeros either-not the north or the west. Not the iron islands.

Varys is a villain. He killed a man bringing stability and trying to bind up Westeros to put his candidate on the throne.

I mean-Tyrion was badly whitewashed in te show, but it’s nothing compared to Varys-whose actions bring more war and destruction. “For the good of the realm” my ass.

Aegon is another one of those monsters sucking and biting the woman that is Westeros.

Not to mention being a false dragon and a false savior.

I think it’s because Varys thinks that Fake!Aegon would be SO much better

Nevermind that it doesn’t account for the rest of Fake!Aegon’s descendants

And in the short term, or the future longterm, or for the next few years he’s already gotten who knows how many people unnecessarily killed

Doesn’t even account for the coming Winter and the fact that so many are in poverty and starving, even more will be in poverty and starving due to the conflicts

For such an intelligent man who handles so many things, he really doesn’t think longterm enough

 

[Deleted member 88]

Personally I’m more of the opinion Aegon is Illyrio’s son or adopted son. That makes Varys and Illyrio all the more self serving and dishonest scum. But it fits

There’s the fact that the wall is about to fall, Daenerys is coming, Euron is coming, the Lannister’s will not go down quietly, and Stark loyalists in the north and Riverlands have no allegiance to a alleged Targaryen princeling.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I guess in the end, it just goes to show that Varys is human

He’s both a cynical realist in realising how horrible people are

And at the same time he’s an idealist in believing that Egg can fix everything

Those two things are stuff that may not cross his mind or be things he really thinks of clearly

 

[Deleted member 88]

Frankly-Aegon needs Daenerys to have a stable reign in the long run. Without Daenerys he would only hold the south and not even the Vale. Even assuming the West kneels-through Tyrek or some other Lannister puppet, his hold there will never be stable.

Aegon’s military power is based on the GC, stormlords, the Dornish, the sparrows and perhaps the crownlands. Its not that strong of a power base-by itself, it’s just everyone else is too weak.

There’s also the wildcard of the Vale. But Aegon will have to conquer. And he faces greater threats than he will be able to withstand.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The only way I think you can get a Philosopher King in ASOIAF is if he’s got super advanced technology to uplift Westeros or is a Primarch