Culture Adultery Laws

[Husky_Khan]

So this random partisan post popped up in my YouTube Recommendations, ironically coming from Al Jazeera. From reading this, my first thought was CHEATERS BE TRIGGERED.

Taiwan: The liberal democracy where adultery remains a crime

The island's highest court is to review the law this week raising hopes of abolition.

www.aljazeera.com

But the article itself wasn't quite a den of immoral debauchery. While it took a string stance critical of Taiwan's adultery laws it wwaamostly anecdotal sob stories about what seemed like exceptional cases where people fell under the purview of adultery laws despite mitigating circumstances like already being legally separated and using criminal proceedings to incur financial or civil damage etc.

So basically more on litigation and legalistic things then the morals or ethics of it though Al Jazeera took it's time on criticizing Taiwan for being misogynistic and non-progressive compared to other parts of the non-Islamic developed world (their terminology, not mine really).

With all that said this article is meant more as a vehicle for discussion... What is y'all opinions on adultery laws or legislation and if it's a thing you may endorse, the form it should potentially take?

 

[Abhorsen]

The biggest problem is that government doesn't exist to legislate morality, and it shouldn't. Adultery is shitty, sure, but is none of the goernment's business, much like most of the times people are shitty people. Or why stop at adultery? Why not legislate forgetting you spouses birthday?

 

[Deleted member 88]

Also what counts as adultery? Actual sex? Sexual foreplay? A stolen kiss? Having a friend of the opposite sex while married?

Personally I think adultery is wrong both on religious grounds and also because of its social destabilizing effects.

TBS, I can concede the human heart is fickle and marriages are often very far from some saintly ideal which is why I am more of the opinion that if you can't make your marriage work, or you despise or are indifferent to your spouse-you probably shouldn't have gotten married to start with.

But that's changing both human behavior and giving people better judgement-which the law can't do.

So criminalizing adultery is futile.

 

[Sailor.X]

In my experience Adultery has a nasty habit of resulting in two people with gunshot wounds to the head. It happened to one of my cousins who cheated on her husband. He showed up at her job and shot her and the guy she was cheating with before shooting himself in the head. And in some cases the hurt spouse just goes to town on not only the two cheaters but their coworkers. You should look up these incidents. Adultery can cause serious harm to people not even involved when shit goes south.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Also what counts as adultery? Actual sex? Sexual foreplay? A stolen kiss? Having a friend of the opposite sex while married?

Personally I think adultery is wrong both on religious grounds and also because of its social destabilizing effects.

TBS, I can concede the human heart is fickle and marriages are often very far from some saintly ideal which is why I am more of the opinion that if you can't make your marriage work, or you despise or are indifferent to your spouse-you probably shouldn't have gotten married to start with.

But that's changing both human behavior and giving people better judgement-which the law can't do.

So criminalizing adultery is futile.

Don't be absurd you know very well that all those barring the male friend is cheating. I see no reason to have the state involved but still don't he ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 88]

In my experience Adultery has a nasty habit of resulting in two people with gunshot wounds to the head. It happened to one of my cousins who cheated on here husband. He showed up at her job and shot her and the guy she was cheating with before shooting himself in the head. And in some cased the hurt spouse just goes to town on not only the two cheaters but their coworkers. You should look up these incidents. Adultery can cause serious harm to people not even involved when shit goes south.

Honestly, there is little real understanding or empathy of the sheer anguish and humiliation a man experiences when he is cuckolded. In non western societies, and in the pre modern west honor violence is the only way a man can restore his self respect. If his wife can cheat on him with out retaliatory violence on his part, he sees his own existence as worthless.

The same is true in the west, but the court system is unsympathetic to this being favorable to women.

Occasionally women will act the same way, but often without the same need to "redeem" their self respect.

Adultery destroys lives and it destroys families. There is no doubt about that.

Even barring examples where violence is the end result, it often leads to angry alienated children, financial turmoil, public humiliation, among other ills.

Which is why I think adultery is grossly immoral.

 

[S'task]

The biggest problem is that government doesn't exist to legislate morality, and it shouldn't. Adultery is shitty, sure, but is none of the goernment's business, much like most of the times people are shitty people. Or why stop at adultery? Why not legislate forgetting you spouses birthday?

Adultery laws aren't a matter of enforcing morality, not really.

Adultery laws are a matter of the government enforcing a contract. Marriage is, legally speaking, a binding contract. Historically speaking, that was the primary purpose OF governmental recognition of and involvement with marriage, and to this day it retains those aspects, from the speaking of binding oaths by the participants, to having a signed document representing that contract.

Adultery, fundamentally, is the abrogation of the marriage contract by one of the involved parties. Just as breaking certain other contracts does allow criminal enforcement to be taken against people, historically it was seen as a proper use of governmental power to assist in enforcing the marriage contract.

Considering that the single most important thing for building successful future generations is having married couples in long term committed relationships, both for that couple (long term married couples are usually financially better off and more productive than single people or even COHABITING couples) and for their children (seriously, having two parents is a GREATER ADVANTAGE and predictor of future success for children than what race, sex, or even the ECONOMIC STATUS of the family is, greater than some of them COMBINED even), the government has a vested interest in encouraging the creation and sustaining of marriages, while disincentivizing the breakup of them.

So no, it's really not about "legislating morality", such laws can be seen as the government taking an interest in enforcing a contract and encouraging the creation of the single most important structure for long term personal, societal, and national success.

 

[Abhorsen]

Adultery laws aren't a matter of enforcing morality, not really.

Adultery laws are a matter of the government enforcing a contract. Marriage is, legally speaking, a binding contract. Historically speaking, that was the primary purpose OF governmental recognition of and involvement with marriage, and to this day it retains those aspects, from the speaking of binding oaths by the participants, to having a signed document representing that contract.

Adultery, fundamentally, is the abrogation of the marriage contract by one of the involved parties. Just as breaking certain other contracts does allow criminal enforcement to be taken against people, historically it was seen as a proper use of governmental power to assist in enforcing the marriage contract.

Considering that the single most important thing for building successful future generations is having married couples in long term committed relationships, both for that couple (long term married couples are usually financially better off and more productive than single people or even COHABITING couples) and for their children (seriously, having two parents is a GREATER ADVANTAGE and predictor of future success for children than what race, sex, or even the ECONOMIC STATUS of the family is, greater than some of them COMBINED even), the government has a vested interest in encouraging the creation and sustaining of marriages, while disincentivizing the breakup of them.

So no, it's really not about "legislating morality", such laws can be seen as the government taking an interest in enforcing a contract and encouraging the creation of the single most important structure for long term personal, societal, and national success.

And if adultery laws were civil violations, sure. But they seem to be treated as criminal violations instead. And that's a big difference. But your point about meeting a contract is a good one.

 

[ShieldWife]

Adultery is certainly bad and I suppose laws against it could be beneficial in some ways, though I really don’t trust our current government to do that sort of thing. I fact, I’m skeptical enough of government power that I don’t know if I’d want any government having criminal punishments for adultery, but with our current government I am particularly reluctant.

For one thing, this law would be an excuse for the leftist misandrists in the system to go after men. We should all know that in our current system and political climate that these laws would be selectively enforced against men and women would get off more lightly when they are prosecuted at all.

This will likely horrify most people who read this, but I might actually support such laws if they prohibited women from committing adultery and not men, because adultery is a far more destructive act when committed by women and through out most of history and in most societies this was recognized.

 

[Fleiur]

Also what counts as adultery? Actual sex? Sexual foreplay? A stolen kiss? Having a friend of the opposite sex while married?

1. The woman is married.

2. The woman had sexual intercourse with a man not her husband.

3. The man she had sexual intercoursewith is aware that she is married.
The husband can file a case against his wife and her lover.


Anyway, on adultery, I don't see problem in this. When you married your spouse, both of you signed a marriage contract. So like other contracts, once you have violated it, the other person has the right to file a case against you for violating a contract.
The woman should be held accountable for destroying the marriage and her family by committing adultery.

 

[Abhorsen]

1. The woman is married.

2. The woman had sexual intercourse with a man not her husband.

3. The man she had sexual intercoursewith is aware that she is married.
The husband can file a case against his wife and her lover

Is this the legal definition of Taiwan, or your proposed definition?

 

[Fleiur]

Is this the legal definition of Taiwan, or your proposed definition?

Different country. But the same definition as in Taiwan:

"In place since 1935, Taiwan’s Department of Justice defines adultery as “a married person who has sex with another person.”

‘Fornication’ is defined in Taiwan as an adulterous sex act, but specifically it must entail sex with someone of the opposite sex; and involve penetration of one’s sex organ into/by another person’s (reproductive) sex organ, exclusively.

If the ‘injured’ party files charges against the offending spouse, the lover must also be charged. One or both of those charges, though, may also be dropped."

 

[Prince Ire]

It is absolutely the job of governments to enforce morality. That is the entire reason for their existence. Even protecting property rights is, in the end, enforcing the moral view that it is wrong to violate someone's property rights. Good on Taiwan for upholding the portion of the natural law that states that adultery is wrong.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

It is absolutely the job of governments to enforce morality

That include the Sharia Law idea of "enforcing morality" even on non-believers or people who made the horrible "crime" of walking with a man who's not family or husband

Even protecting property rights is, in the end, enforcing the moral view that it is wrong to violate someone's property rights.

That said, yeah I think if someone were to do adultery or be an abusive asshole, the victim has the right to do a divorce or not get ruined by him/her

Shows it was a mistake to even have been with him/her to begin with and the law should be willing to defend after seeing what happened in the case

 

[Lanmandragon]

1. The woman is married.

2. The woman had sexual intercourse with a man not her husband.

3. The man she had sexual intercoursewith is aware that she is married.
The husband can file a case against his wife and her lover.


Anyway, on adultery, I don't see problem in this. When you married your spouse, both of you signed a marriage contract. So like other contracts, once you have violated it, the other person has the right to file a case against you for violating a contract.
The woman should be held accountable for destroying the marriage and her family by committing adultery.

Adultery starts long before sex or even kissing. When you flirt or have any sort of intimate contact it's adultery. Personally I go as far as having friends of the opposite gender at all. I'm harsh like that though still adultery is more then sex. In the exact same way a marriage is.

 

[Fleiur]

Adultery starts long before sex or even kissing. When you flirt or have any sort of intimate contact it's adultery. Personally I go as far as having friends of the opposite gender at all. I'm harsh like that though still adultery is more then sex. In the exact same way a marriage is.

It's because adultery is a crime. That's why the court only physical adultery is looked at. I get what you're saying though.

 

[Cherico]

Id just like to chime in and say do not have sex with married women.

It doesn't matter how much of a bad ass you think you are that can go very very bad for you very quickly and same thing for the women here, do not go after married men. If some ones in a commited relationship do not try to mess around with that.

 

[Sailor.X]

Id just like to chime in and say do not have sex with married women.

It doesn't matter how much of a bad ass you think you are that can go very very bad for you very quickly and same thing for the women here, do not go after married men. If some ones in a commited relationship do not try to mess around with that.

It always mostly ends with a bullet to the head. Domestic crime stats prove that.