ASOIAF/GOT A redeemed Sauron became Witch-King-Beyond-The-Wall

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
The scenario is he ends up only becoming King after repeated attempts to raid and ransack his new base of operations resulting in people surrendering to IT out of fear

Said raids are for the iron tools and weapons and the place itself

How does Sauron deal with things politically speaking when Westeros takes notice and for whatever the reason Sauron’s vowed to only be King of The Free Folk and have his ambition be towards their continued survival and prosperity?
 

ATP

Well-known member
He would deal with Others,deliver cyvilisation to free folks, and there would be no need for Jon Snow.
Cersei would rule over Westeros,and Sauron over wildlings ?
 

Shipmaster Sane

You have been weighed
The scenario is he ends up only becoming King after repeated attempts to raid and ransack his new base of operations resulting in people surrendering to IT out of fear

Said raids are for the iron tools and weapons and the place itself

How does Sauron deal with things politically speaking when Westeros takes notice and for whatever the reason Sauron’s vowed to only be King of The Free Folk and have his ambition be towards their continued survival and prosperity?
Define "redeemed".
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Define "redeemed".
I second this. Because Sauron has a Modus operandi that isnt exactly healthy...for anyone.

He is told to NOT be a terrible monster and actually help people but NOT be a conqueror

The King-Beyond-The-Wall title is more "honorary" as he never really goes off to conquer them, but they instead "democratically" vote they find him to be strong and a bringer of knowledge, like something sent by the Gods to help them

Even if they are confused by him saying not to raid the Southerners and he tries teaching them all how to work the bones of the earth

Think of him as a "teacher" to the Free Folk, one that keeps trying to show them how to build the infrastructure of a civilization
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Wait a minute wut

Why the hell would Sauron become a witch king?

He'd just fuck off to the Citadel and tinker around in their engineering and science department. Churn out huge amounts of new breeds of domestic animals and medical advances and probably begin to study how to manipulate the setting's magical energies so he could create life extending objects and shit.

Or he'd kick down the wall and just murder everything up there?

I second this. Because Sauron has a Modus operandi that isnt exactly healthy...for anyone.

To be fair...He was a great scientist and master engineer and metalurgist and sorcerer...Orc medicine is actually pretty amazing..its just very invasive so it hurts and looks ugly and I got the impression all his monsters were continuously on drugs and steroids...But he was actually pretty sophisticated there. The powers of light considered it monstrous for the aforementioned reasons but I bet modern doctors would consider it par for the course if a bit unethical...Due to his love of doping everything within a hundred mile radius.

Well unless you're a sports Doctor..then you probably hold up Sauron as the modern day Galen...


He was also the best telepath in his setting..but he sorta specialized in mind raping there.

He is told to NOT be a terrible monster and actually help people but NOT be a conqueror

The King-Beyond-The-Wall title is more "honorary" as he never really goes off to conquer them, but they instead "democratically" vote they find him to be strong and a bringer of knowledge, like something sent by the Gods to help them

Even if they are confused by him saying not to raid the Southerners and he tries teaching them all how to work the bones of the earth

Think of him as a "teacher" to the Free Folk, one that keeps trying to show them how to build the infrastructure of a civilization

He'd definitely do a lot less teaching and a lot more..narcotics induced behavioral modification therapy..a lot more "this is engineering..LEARN SNOW SAVAGES!"

And woe be unto the white walkers..
 
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CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
He'd definitely do a lot less teaching and a lot more..narcotics induced behavioral modification therapy..a lot more "this is engineering..LEARN SNOW SAVAGES!"

And woe be unto the white walkers..

Then he tries explaining WHY it is “morally wrong” to go off and rape a woman as a way to marry her or why it’s not actually consensual

He beats his head repeatedly on the wall whenever he tried explaining “respecting private property” because he knows he can’t just murder them all due to said vows
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Then he tries explaining WHY it is “morally wrong” to go off and rape a woman as a way to marry her or why it’s not actually consensual

He'd probably just get them all really high and then subject them to over stimulation Clockwork orange style...

He'd also probably start trying to convince the free people to partake in eugenics...Even benevolent and a servant of Aule, I got the impression Sauron was still kind of crazy and a bit of a mad scientist.

...Okay not a bit...more like..even..Saruman was eclipsed by that.


He beats his head repeatedly on the wall whenever he tried explaining “respecting private property” because he knows he can’t just murder them all due to said vows

To be fair..private property as a concept can be solved once he explains that "kneelers always beat you because they have shit like houses and sewers and that it aint about kneeling, its about still being able to fight at seventy".

I think honestly..From tormund and the like in the books, they were less retarded and more just needed shit explained to them better.

The fact that Stannis could speak their language so well most turned into fanatically loyal kingsmen...seems to bear that out.
 

almostinsane

Well-known member
A redeemed Sauron would not be let anywhere near a position of power, especially if it's to care for a people and organize their society.

Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion said:
Sauron had never reached this stage of nihilistic madness [as Morgoth had]. He did not object to the existence of the world, so long as he could do what he liked with it. He still had the relics of positive purposes, that descended from the good of the nature in which he began: it had been his virtue (and therefore also the cause of his fall, and of his relapse) that he loved order and coordination, and disliked all confusion and wasteful friction. (It was the apparent will and power of Melkor to effect his designs quickly and masterfully that had first attracted Sauron to him.) Sauron had, in fact, been very like Saruman, and so still understood him quickly and could guess what he would be likely to think and do, even without the aid of palantíri or spies; whereas Gandalf eluded and puzzled him. But like all minds of this cast, Sauron’s love (originally) or (later) mere understanding of other individual intelligences was correspondingly weaker; and though the only real good in, or rational motive for, all this ordering and planning and organization was the good of all inhabitants of Arda (even admitting Sauron’s right to be their supreme lord), his ‘plans’, the idea coming from his own isolated mind, became the sole object of his will, and an end, the End, in itself.

In short, you don't let a control freak have his drug anymore if you're rehabilitating him.
 

ATP

Well-known member
He is told to NOT be a terrible monster and actually help people but NOT be a conqueror

The King-Beyond-The-Wall title is more "honorary" as he never really goes off to conquer them, but they instead "democratically" vote they find him to be strong and a bringer of knowledge, like something sent by the Gods to help them

Even if they are confused by him saying not to raid the Southerners and he tries teaching them all how to work the bones of the earth

Think of him as a "teacher" to the Free Folk, one that keeps trying to show them how to build the infrastructure of a civilization

So,Sauron as kind of Gandalf ? it could work.
 

Firebat

Well-known member
So,Sauron as kind of Gandalf ? it could work.
In the celestial pecking order, Sauron is two steps removed from God himself. Her served directly to big boss' chief lieutenant. He is more powerful than Gandalf. Gandalf was limited in his actions by the virtue of being relatively small, relatively fragile and relatively powerless. Although even Gandalf did not shy away from stabbing people.

Sauron's original goal was to make everything orderly and proper (in his eyes at very least), so he really invested in building an empire, spreading his essence to taint the land and basically opting for more managerial approach. So while his canonical MO is not usually associated with direct confrontations, he is very much capable of that. "Concentrated" Sauron (who is not spreading himself thin to pollute the land with evil) can just roam the earth re-enacting "The Slap: Part 2" until any and all opposition calms their tits - in this world or the next, depending on how durable their chins are. As far as violent conflict resolution department goes, he is kinda OP.

Of course redeemed Sauron's MO depends heavily on how exactly his redemption went down and what the logic behind the process was. It's not important what he is "told" (God knows he is a poster boy for not doing what he was told). It is important what he thinks for himself. If Sauron is just tired of fighting obviously hopeless battle against God, it's one thing. If Sauron has gained appreciation for chaotic nature of God's creation, that's another. If Sauron still very much persists in his desire for order, just re-considers his previous methods, that's another one still.

As a result, you can get a number of possible re-interpretations.
- an explorer Sauron: he travels the world in search of understanding, contacting all sorts of people, trying to comprehend their views, their culture, their religion.
- a roaming knight Sauron: an angel of the Lord that aspires to change the world by simply wandering the earth, fighting evil one small battle at a time, adjucating here, teaching the truth and useful skills there. He obviously becomes a sort of deity/legend for the Freefolk
- a relaxed Sauron: the air is filled with blaze and weed, as Sauron enjoys God's creation as it comes to him without trying to impose his will upon it.
- a hegemonic Sauron: still very much an empire-builder, he schemes, cajoles and persuades to get people to do what he thinks is right. After all, his original empire was very heterogeneous - between Ork tribes, Trolls and different human nations - so Free Folk's diversity is hardly an insurmountable challenge. Granted, there probably will be a lot less murder and slavery involved, but political puppeteering is still on the menu.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Personally i would prefer relaxed Sauron,who after finally meeting Ned,would say "Chill,dude,Eru loves you"
 

Firebat

Well-known member
Personally i would prefer relaxed Sauron,who after finally meeting Ned,would say "Chill,dude,Eru loves you"
Sauron Campiagn Intro:
The air was filled with smoke and blaze...
From the mighty Wall to the far reaches of Dorne, the Kingdom of Westeros streched. A misty earth, where men of greatness lit up and inhaled.
Those who followed neglected the old pipes, fighting over half-empty bottles.
They would either embrace the true way, or succumb to barbarous alcoholism.
And behold the green horse, and power was given to him who sat thereon to take stress from the earth!
Sauron of the Arda, that chill son of Valinor, the time had come to bring peace to Westeros.
He made ready the bongs.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Sauron Campiagn Intro:
The air was filled with smoke and blaze...
From the mighty Wall to the far reaches of Dorne, the Kingdom of Westeros streched. A misty earth, where men of greatness lit up and inhaled.
Those who followed neglected the old pipes, fighting over half-empty bottles.
They would either embrace the true way, or succumb to barbarous alcoholism.
And behold the green horse, and power was given to him who sat thereon to take stress from the earth!
Sauron of the Arda, that chill son of Valinor, the time had come to bring peace to Westeros.
He made ready the bongs.

You know, Cannabis was used in the original Anointing Oil from the Bible
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Sauron loved him some drugs in the legendarium, roids as well. At least for the people under his service. Granted he was more of a meth lord than a disciple of the bong.

Off stimulants he probably goes back to being "the lord of cats".

Hilariously in one of the earliest attempts to do a LOTR movie. Sauron was to be played by James Brown.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Sauron Campiagn Intro:
The air was filled with smoke and blaze...
From the mighty Wall to the far reaches of Dorne, the Kingdom of Westeros streched. A misty earth, where men of greatness lit up and inhaled.
Those who followed neglected the old pipes, fighting over half-empty bottles.
They would either embrace the true way, or succumb to barbarous alcoholism.
And behold the green horse, and power was given to him who sat thereon to take stress from the earth!
Sauron of the Arda, that chill son of Valinor, the time had come to bring peace to Westeros.
He made ready the bongs.

And everybody would be happy - except Others,Drowned god,Kadath and GRRM.Who would be weeping over his grimdark masterpiece turned into cannabis paradise.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
- a roaming knight Sauron: an angel of the Lord that aspires to change the world by simply wandering the earth, fighting evil one small battle at a time, adjucating here, teaching the truth and useful skills there. He obviously becomes a sort of deity/legend for the Freefolk

I know it's been long

But this made me think of Pelinal Whitestrake, guy was theorised by the Altmer/High Elves to have gone under many other different Human Names, founding kingdoms and abandoning them

Sort of like a version of Conan The Cimmerian(comic version, guy only became King much later in his life in the books)

Except with magical powers

A "Free Folk" interpretation would probably claim Sauron's bedded and impregnated many women and murdered the "Kneelers" before/while doing nation building and teaching them "how to know the wonders of Eru's creation"
 
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