A question for our military and ex-military members

Big Steve

Big Steve

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This is for a creative project. Specifically, I'm aware that "dishonorable discharge" is generally for enlisted personnel (including NCOs I think?) while officers are considered "dismissed". Are there any other terms used in the military to refer to an officer dismissed from service on similar grounds to a dishonorable discharge? I'm talking about someone even getting the full Dreyfuss "drumming out ceremony, cover knocked from head, ribbons and shoulder-boards torn from uniform, officer's sword broken over knee" treatment.
 
Spartan303 said:
Fried is correct. Dishonorable Discharge is usually for enlisted personnel and I think Warrant officers. And given how rare its used you have to do some pretty serious shit to get it.
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Size and needs of the army changes rarity. Buddy of mine said guys in his unit got caught doing heroin but because we needed bodies at the time they werent even court martialed. Kept it internal. That'd probably be a different story right this second. Also no one knows what the fuck goes on with warrant officers outside of aviators. I like to think even warrants dont they just pretend they do to skate on through. I met and talked with a W-4 in a headquarters unit and I still dont get it.
 
the Closest I’ve heard of the dramatics you’re describing was an NJP when I was but a wee boot, after reading the charges, the CO(?) or first sgt (?) removed the rank insignia from the chagrined lance corporal, now private and... then told him to get the fuck out of their office. That was it.

But it was a very brief moment, devoid of hysterics. I’d imagine officers are always given even more consideration and nobody is breaking a 600$ sword over their knee just to blast someone.

I’ve never actually heard of an officer being dismissed for anything other than like massive felony charges so imagine in that case jail is the real punishment vs dismissal.
 
GooseActual said:
the Closest I’ve heard of the dramatics you’re describing was an NJP when I was but a wee boot, after reading the charges, the CO(?) or first sgt (?) removed the rank insignia from the chagrined lance corporal, now private and... then told him to get the fuck out of their office. That was it.

But it was a very brief moment, devoid of hysterics. I’d imagine officers are always given even more consideration and nobody is breaking a 600$ sword over their knee just to blast someone.
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Like i dont think fuckin Hasan got that kind of treatment. We are just gonna execute him at somepoint hopefully. I think the worst he got is hes just not allowed to have a beard.
 
FriedCFour said:
Like i dont think fuckin Hasan got that kind of treatment. We are just gonna execute him at somepoint hopefully. I think the worst he got is hes just not allowed to have a beard.
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And if they did, they sure as fuck did it in private. The enlisted are supposed to respect officers (lol) and literally dressing down an officer in public is not the way to instill or enforce said respect.

Hasan, well I’m sure they were too busy preparing the most air tight case so that they could burn him opposed to making grandiose meaningless gestures.
 
Big Steve said:
This is for a creative project. Specifically, I'm aware that "dishonorable discharge" is generally for enlisted personnel (including NCOs I think?) while officers are considered "dismissed". Are there any other terms used in the military to refer to an officer dismissed from service on similar grounds to a dishonorable discharge? I'm talking about someone even getting the full Dreyfuss "drumming out ceremony, cover knocked from head, ribbons and shoulder-boards torn from uniform, officer's sword broken over knee" treatment.
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Dreyfuss’ treatment was both French and driven by his criminal conviction at courts martial. I don’t think it was related to his dismissal so much.
 
FriedCFour said:
Size and needs of the army changes rarity. Buddy of mine said guys in his unit got caught doing heroin but because we needed bodies at the time they werent even court martialed. Kept it internal. That'd probably be a different story right this second. Also no one knows what the fuck goes on with warrant officers outside of aviators. I like to think even warrants dont they just pretend they do to skate on through. I met and talked with a W-4 in a headquarters unit and I still dont get it.
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We must had a guy get his DD 214 and then immedietly get arrested...twice..
And we currently have two guys on investigation for SHARP charges. This is just from the chapter Platopn at AIT.


And fried you are correct about what happens to officers.
 
I wish I could go into more detail, but this stuff is contracted work and I'm limited in what I can divulge. I was trying to find a term related specifically to an officer being dismissed dishonorably (and unfairly) to use as a prospective title as my proposed titles have been rejected over concerns of how they'll sound to Mil-SF readers.
 
Big Steve said:
I wish I could go into more detail, but this stuff is contracted work and I'm limited in what I can divulge. I was trying to find a term related specifically to an officer being dismissed dishonorably (and unfairly) to use as a prospective title as my proposed titles have been rejected over concerns of how they'll sound to Mil-SF readers.
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Theres the bad conduct charge, which has the nick name Big Chicken Dinner. You could title it that.
 
Big Steve said:
Ha! No, that's unlikely.
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Charlie Foxtrot stands for cluster fuck which is how this situation sounds. Other than that I'd suggest looking over UCMJ and trying to find a legal term related to the court martial that sounds ominous to you. Unlawful Command Influence sounds like what could have gone on at the trial and
shortening it to Unlawful Command was one I found that sounds interesting. Unlawful Commander could relate to the character.
 
Spartan303 said:
Fried is correct. Dishonorable Discharge is usually for enlisted personnel and I think Warrant officers. And given how rare its used you have to do some pretty serious shit to get it.
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Indeed. It is more likely for a person to get a Bad Conduct Discharge for fucking up than a Dishonorable Discharge. I can't think of a single person that got booted out of the Navy when I was in that got a DD.
 
Cashiered is a term as well. Unfairly? Honestly, it's *hard* to get a dishonorable (even pre 80's, pre 40's) discharge, overall if you're an officer, and that's not something that's 'new'. If the military just doesn't want you, then can order you to your home of record, and be done. Generally, you not only have to be guilty of something, it has to be something (at least in American service), that the military is *willing* to basically risk their dirty laundry hitting Congress.
 
A title's been picked. Thanks for the input. :)

And by unfairly, I mean... well, you'll see on September 1st.;)
 
I do feel really bad for some people that got a Dishonorable Discharge during the Vietnam war. Some of those poor guys literally got railroaded by their superiors when they did nothing wrong. There are some stories out there on the internet which tell what happened to them. Pretty sad reads. :(
 
In the US system the proper term for officers thrown out on the worst conditions is dismissal, and beyond that it falls under the same legal section as dishonorable discharge, with the same legally binding fallout after the fact.

One difference though is that in the US system, an officer can actually be dismissed by order of the president, though they will have the right to request trial by court martial at that point. Enlisted personal cannot be dishonorable discharged by decree in a similar manner, though they can be kicked out with by non court marshal decisions with a better discharge standard.

Big Steve said:
I'm talking about someone even getting the full Dreyfuss "drumming out ceremony, cover knocked from head, ribbons and shoulder-boards torn from uniform, officer's sword broken over knee" treatment.
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The term normally used for that in English is cashiering, named because it comes from the British military back when nearly all officer commissions were purchased. If you actually got kicked out you lost the money you'd deposited for the rank. If you are looking for a formal term to use in reference here, I'd suggest that's it, and it's probably the best term to research further.

Drumming out as a term is a pretty American specific thing as I recall and is very informal as to what it actually means.
 
Isn't there also another form of dismissal called Other Than Honourable Discharge which is a milder form of Dishonourable Discharge?
 
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