What If? A New Landmass appears in Atlantic Ocean.

[Sailor.X]

In this scenario in the year 1875 the ROB places a new landmass in the Atlantic Ocean. The new landmass is the size of Greenland and Madagascar combined. And is 300 miles off the coast of Brazil. It has a Tropical and Savannah type habitat on the subcontinent. One the landmass are a mix of Native American, African and South East Asian origin. The total population on the Subcontinent is 35 million people. With 55 percent of the population between the ages of 25 and 50. The nation is called Chicora. It is a Democratic Republic style nation. Non expansionist and very industrialized. Wildlife is similar to North American animals from the Miocene epoch. The major difference between them and the other nations on Earth is they are more technologically advanced. There technology is the exact same as what the USA had in the late 1950s. Their military is of a reasonable size and geared towards defense of the Nation. But they can engage in an Expeditionary Operation if they have to.

Cities:
3 Large Cities
10: Small Cites
200: Small Towns.

Here is their military size by branch.
Army: 500,000 personnel (includes an Army Air Corps they never made a dedicated Air Force)
Navy: 450,000 personnel (includes Naval Aviation)
Marine Corps 250,000 personnel (includes Marine Aviation)

Army Equipment:
M-60 Patton Tank: 100
M113 APC: 500
CJ3B: 5,000
M35 Cargo Truck, 5,000
M114 155mm Howizter: 500
UH-1 Huey: 1,000
H-34 Choctaw: 250
CH-47 Mojave: 100
F-100 Super Sabre: 150
F-104 Starfighter: 200
B-52 Stratofortress: 50
C-130 Hercules: 100
KC-135 Stratotanker: 50
EC-121 Warning Star: 35
All Small Arms and Heavy Machineguns the same as the US Army in 1959

Navy Equipment:
Forrestal Class Aircraft Carriers: 3
Iowa Class Battleships: 4
Des Moines Class Cruiser: 20
Forest Sherman Class Destroyer: 60
PT Boats 500
Landing Craft Utility: 200
Skate Class Attack Submarine: 25
Skipjack Class Attack Submarine: 25
De Soto County Class Tank Landing Ships: 20
Ashland Class Landing Ship Dock: 50
Essex Class Aircraft Carriers (Gator Duty): 5
Neosho Class Oilers: 5
Shenandoah Class Destroyer Tender: 3
F-8 Crusader: 100
A-4 Skyhawk: 100
P-2 Neptune: 50
SH-2 Sesprite: 100
SH-3 Sea King: 50
All Small Arms and Heavy Machineguns the same as the US Navy in 1959

Marine Corps Equipment:
M-60 Patton: 50
M113 APC: 100
CJ3B: 2,000
M-35 Cargo Truck: 2,000
M114 155mm Howitzer: 100
UH-1 Huey: 500
CH-47 Mojave: 50
F-8 Crusader: 50
A-4 Skyhawk: 50
All other Small Arms and Heavy Machinegunes the same as the USMC in 1959

The Subcontinent is rich in Oil, Coal, Platinum, Aluminum, Gold, rubber trees and Natural Gas. Major Food Crops are Corn, Rice Sweet Potatoes, Squash, Watermelons and beans. Their National Policy is non intervention. They stay out of other nations business and expect the same in return. They have an Embassy in the US, UK, France, Spain, Brazil, Mexico and Morocco. They also have a spy network that puts the CIA, MI5 and the KJB to shame. Their Surface Navy patrols mostly the Atlantic Ocean. With the Subs venturing into the Indian and Pacific oceans. How will the existence of this new nation affect the flow of history from this point forward?

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

There technology is the exact same as what the USA had in the late 1950s.

That would actually make them more advanced than the modern US in some ways. The US has lost the ability to put a man on the moon. The factories that built the Saturn V rockets have shut down and the machinery lost, and there has been an expertise drain in the US and skills have not been passed on. If Chicora put their men on the moon they would immediately establish themselves in the public consciousness as one of the top powers.

If Chicora's leadership have any brains, they will keep to themselves. They have a landmass all to themselves. They are sheltered by two oceans on either side. They are self-sufficient, and they are not entangled in the global hegemony of the world. I the US or Russia or China attempts to exert influence on them, Chicora may wind up allying with India and other outsider powers.

 

[Sailor.X]

That would actually make them more advanced than the modern US in some ways. The US has lost the ability to put a man on the moon. The factories that built the Saturn V rockets have shut down and the machinery lost, and there has been an expertise drain in the US and skills have not been passed on. If Chicora put their men on the moon they would immediately establish themselves in the public consciousness as one of the top powers.

If Chicora's leadership have any brains, they will keep to themselves. They have a landmass all to themselves. They are sheltered by two oceans on either side. They are self-sufficient, and they are not entangled in the global hegemony of the world. I the US or Russia or China attempts to exert influence on them, Chicora may wind up allying with India and other outsider powers.

They have not put men on the moon yet. But they are working on that project. They have spies all over the world in major capitals keeping tabs on what the scuttlebutt those governments are up too. The Embassies they have are just for diplomatic purposes. They regularly assure the other powers they are not a threat and don't want war. If one of the major powers is stupid enough to attack Chicora. They would see their military capacity ended overnight. The one thing they do export is medicine that can treat diseases we have already cured in the modern day. They do it as a show of goodwill.

 

[Buba]

2,75M km2? Quite a lot - and empty ... will it take in immigrants?
You missed a zero in the number of most equipment/weapons of the Army.
Chicora cannot afford such a navy.
Nor a 1,2M peacetime military - that's about three times the limit, unless you go NORK.
No AF is a smart move and always gets applause from me.

 

[Sailor.X]

2,75M km2? Quite a lot - and empty ... will it take in immigrants?
You missed a zero in the number of most equipment/weapons of the Army.
Chicora cannot afford such a navy.
Nor a 1,2M peacetime military - that's about three times the limit, unless you go NORK.
No AF is a smart move and always gets applause from me.

Chicora is more Oil rich than Saudi Arabia, Has more Gold than the US an Europe combined and is a major Coal Exporter. They are flush with cash. And the cut better deals than the Ferengi. They have their financial house in order. In today's dollars they have a 10 trillion dollar economy. They can afford the amount of military tech they have. They are very very selective on immigration. They only want people with meaningful skills. Aka Engineers, Doctors, Scientists etc. And then they are on a probational period for 10 years where they are closely watched.

 

[Buba]

Is Chicora an oil exporter? If yes - 1875 prices might be a disapointment.
1,2M strong military on a population of 35M in peacetime is insane. This means 4-5 year long conscription of all males of appropriate age?
Some 400-500k is manageable, though.

They are very very selective on immigration. They only want people with meaningful skills. Aka Engineers, Doctors, Scientists etc.

They won't be getting them in 1875, then.

 

[Sailor.X]

Is Chicora an oil exporter? If yes - 1875 prices might be a disapointment.
1,2M strong military on a population of 35M in peacetime is insane. This means 4-5 year long conscription of all males of appropriate age?
Some 400-500k is manageable, though.


They won't be getting them in 1875, then.

There military is so high because they know a lot of world powers are going around conquering an colonizing different places. They aren't stupid. They know peace through superior firepower is true peace. They only export Coal and food stuffs.

 

[Buba]

Me bad - oil prices were nothing to get excited about until 1974. Nice to have, of course, but not something making a country rich on its own. But as you say Chicoria is not exporting it, a non secitur.
Coal, you say? The world is awash with cheap and high quality British coal.
Foodstufs? The USA, Russia etc. have joined the chat

 

[ATP]

There military is so high because they know a lot of world powers are going around conquering an colonizing different places. They aren't stupid. They know peace through superior firepower is true peace. They only export Coal and food stuffs.

As long as invaders had 1875 tech,numbers do not matter. @Buba had it right,they should have max 0,5M.
Others could be in militia.

Not intervention - nice and dandy,but they still would have enemies.So,either made Alliances with some powers,or colonies in Africa/South America before technology gap vanish.
For example,OTL Chile still had indians fighting for independence.Support them.
The same with africans in Congo and other places which have useful things.

P.S in case of some world power trying invasion - welcome elites from prosecuted minorities there.
Like irish and scots from England,bretonnians from France,poles from Germany,and also poles from Russia.
Mexicans from USA.

 

[Buba]

@ATP u so bad nd notty! nd 2 evul!
u suggestink an injustice league:

Stand up, all victims of oppression
For the tyrants fear your might
Don't cling so hard to your possessions
For you have nothing, if you have no rights ....

 

[ATP]

@ATP u so bad nd notty! nd 2 evul!
u suggestink an injustice league:

Stand up, all victims of oppression
For the tyrants fear your might
Don't cling so hard to your possessions
For you have nothing, if you have no rights ....

No,simply hiring as spies those in every power who hate them anyway and would be working for us for free.
No ideology,only self-interest.
And not use socialists.You do not made bussines with madmans.

 

[Sailor.X]

As long as invaders had 1875 tech,numbers do not matter. @Buba had it right,they should have max 0,5M.
Others could be in militia.

Not intervention - nice and dandy,but they still would have enemies.So,either made Alliances with some powers,or colonies in Africa/South America before technology gap vanish.
For example,OTL Chile still had indians fighting for independence.Support them.
The same with africans in Congo and other places which have useful things.

P.S in case of some world power trying invasion - welcome elites from prosecuted minorities there.
Like irish and scots from England,bretonnians from France,poles from Germany,and also poles from Russia.
Mexicans from USA.

That tech gap is not closing anytime soon. Chicora is already working on what will become modern computers and more advanced nuke plants. They already have a SR-71 analog in flight testing. While they don't outright intervene in ever conflict. They might smack the hell out of Belgium for what it is doing in the Congo.

Me bad - oil prices were nothing to get excited about until 1974. Nice to have, of course, but not something making a country rich on its own. But as you say Chicoria is not exporting it, a non secitur.
Coal, you say? The world is awash with cheap and high quality British coal.
Foodstufs? The USA, Russia etc. have joined the chat

Yep but Chicora has one thing going for it. They produce very high quality crops. Aka they taste really good compared to the other nations due to their soil not being shot. Which is a case the US will faces before more advanced fertilizer comes on the seen in a few decades IRL.

 

[ATP]

That tech gap is not closing anytime soon. Chicora is already working on what will become modern computers and more advanced nuke plants. They already have a SR-71 analog in flight testing. While they don't outright intervene in ever conflict. They might smack the hell out of Belgium for what it is doing in the Congo.

Yep but Chicora has one thing going for it. They produce very high quality crops. Aka they taste really good compared to the other nations due to their soil not being shot. Which is a case the US will faces before more advanced fertilizer comes on the seen in a few decades IRL.

Why only smack,when they could cyvilize Congo and its minerals better then any world nation?
I do not talk about taking on some occupied countries to liberate it,but taking area which then belonged to more then 10 big tribes/kingdoms.
Where no europeans ruled yet.

The same goes for Chile.

About gap not closinng - it would,if world countries start pouring money into it.They need more territory and future allies for times when it become reality.
Turning Congo and Chile indians into modern states friendly with them would count as that.

Later...maybe help Royals keep power in Vrasil? they had a lot of minerals,too.

P.S and besides,in Congo supposed to exist at least 3 kind of Dinosaurus!

 

[Sailor.X]

Why only smack,when they could cyvilize Congo and its minerals better then any world nation?
I do not talk about taking on some occupied countries to liberate it,but taking area which then belonged to more then 10 big tribes/kingdoms.
Where no europeans ruled yet.

The same goes for Chile.

About gap not closinng - it would,if world countries start pouring money into it.They need more territory and future allies for times when it become reality.
Turning Congo and Chile indians into modern states friendly with them would count as that.

Later...maybe help Royals keep power in Vrasil? they had a lot of minerals,too.

P.S and besides,in Congo supposed to exist at least 3 kind of Dinosaurus!

They have plenty of land they don't need more. They a content in handling their own affairs. If some world power starts going conquer happy they will check them. But they prefer to let cultures develop on their own. As to the tech gap. The other powers have a hard tech limit at the moment because they are 15 years from figuring out aluminum production on a grand scale. And 50 years before they can even get close to advance electronics. Some things you can't brute force. Some things require unrelated tech to mature first. And their is a lot of unrelated tech needed to get to 1950 tech level alone. And by the time they do Chicora will be slightly more advanced than our tech level. And that is not even mentioning Chicora can easily produce an Atomic Bomb if they wanted to.

 

[ATP]

They have plenty of land they don't need more. They a content in handling their own affairs. If some world power starts going conquer happy they will check them. But they prefer to let cultures develop on their own. As to the tech gap. The other powers have a hard tech limit at the moment because they are 15 years from figuring out aluminum production on a grand scale. And 50 years before they can even get close to advance electronics. Some things you can't brute force. Some things require unrelated tech to mature first. And their is a lot of unrelated tech needed to get to 1950 tech level alone. And by the time they do Chicora will be slightly more advanced than our tech level. And that is not even mentioning Chicora can easily produce an Atomic Bomb if they wanted to.

You forget about two things :
1.Geniuses,like Tesla.Imagine him getting unlimited money from USA or other state to get gap smaller.For him it would work.

2.Average people in 19th century was not dumbed yet.There would be enough good scientists and engineers working on your gap to made it vanish even without Tesla.
And they do not need plans,glimpses of what they saw would be enough.

So,your Chicora have 100-200 years before gap would be small enough for Worlds power being capable of swarming them with numbers.

That is why they must,for their grandchildren safety:
1.take all territories which was not taken yet/most of Africa and Chile/Argentina/ to develop them and turn into future allies

2.Made schelter for elites of nations occupied or hurt by great powers - to have spies and potentially fifth column in case of war.

 

[Sailor.X]

You forget about two things :
1.Geniuses,like Tesla.Imagine him getting unlimited money from USA or other state to get gap smaller.For him it would work.

2.Average people in 19th century was not dumbed yet.There would be enough good scientists and engineers working on your gap to made it vanish even without Tesla.
And they do not need plans,glimpses of what they saw would be enough.

So,your Chicora have 100-200 years before gap would be small enough for Worlds power being capable of swarming them with numbers.

That is why they must,for their grandchildren safety:
1.take all territories which was not taken yet/most of Africa and Chile/Argentina/ to develop them and turn into future allies

2.Made schelter for elites of nations occupied or hurt by great powers - to have spies and potentially fifth column in case of war.

They don't need more territory. If some nations get hostile and uppity this will happen to their forces.

And Chicora can spam that if push comes to shove.

The same result would happen if group of smaller countries would have tried to swam attack the US during the Cold War. They would see their Fleets sunk, Armies vaporized and capital cities yeeted.

 

[ATP]

They don't need more territory. If some nations get hostile and uppity this will happen to their forces.

And Chicora can spam that if push comes to shove.

The same result would happen if group of smaller countries would have tried to swam attack the US during the Cold War. They would see their Fleets sunk, Armies vaporized and capital cities yeeted.

Sorry for being unclear.Nobody would nuke them - but other powers start advance science more,ally against them,and,thanks to normal scientists and Tesla class genius,get the same technology after 100-200 years.

When,if Chicora would still have only one island,they would be crushed.
That is why Chicora MUST OCCUPY All available lands in Africa and South America - not becouse 1875 powers could hurt them,but to prevent them from doing so in 2050 or later.

 

[Sailor.X]

Sorry for being unclear.Nobody would nuke them - but other powers start advance science more,ally against them,and,thanks to normal scientists and Tesla class genius,get the same technology after 100-200 years.

When,if Chicora would still have only one island,they would be crushed.
That is why Chicora MUST OCCUPY All available lands in Africa and South America - not becouse 1875 powers could hurt them,but to prevent them from doing so in 2050 or later.

No they don't. I think you need to take a good long look at the two maps images I posted above. Chicora is freaking huge. It is literally a subcontinent. I think you sorely underestimate how big it really is. With that much territory you don't need colonies. They already have the one thing that secures it's safety. It has a moat on all sides making land invasion impossible. And with superior tech, superior spy network and actual nuclear weapons. They can literally swat away any attempted attack. The other powers will never catch up because Chicora is innovating at a very decent rate. by 1900 they will be at our tech level. And by the time the other powers get to where Chicora is in its original appearance. They will be at late 21st Century Tech level. And have full orbital supremacy. The other powers better be thankful Chicora is not conquer happy like they are.

 

[ATP]

No they don't. I think you need to take a good long look at the two maps images I posted above. Chicora is freaking huge. It is literally a subcontinent. I think you sorely underestimate how big it really is. With that much territory you don't need colonies. They already have the one thing that secures it's safety. It has a moat on all sides making land invasion impossible. And with superior tech, superior spy network and actual nuclear weapons. They can literally swat away any attempted attack. The other powers will never catch up because Chicora is innovating at a very decent rate. by 1900 they will be at our tech level. And by the time the other powers get to where Chicora is in its original appearance. They will be at late 21st Century Tech level. And have full orbital supremacy. The other powers better be thankful Chicora is not conquer happy like they are.

They are safe in 1875.But in 1975,after Tesla getting funds for his works,and 100 years of engineers and scientists in all powerfull countries?
Gap would be less then 30 years.
In our times it would be no gap at all/and all would have tech from 2150/

If Chicora learn anything from History,they would carve their Empire in 1875,when they still could.And in places where locals/Chile indians,blacks in Africa/ would welcome them as saviours.

To be honest,if i was in their shoes i would help Mexico reclaim their lands,too.And liberate Ireland,too.
Poland and Hungary...nah,i would not fight 3 european powers with big armies.Or even one.

 

[Sailor.X]

They are safe in 1875.But in 1975,after Tesla getting funds for his works,and 100 years of engineers and scientists in all powerfull countries?
Gap would be less then 30 years.
In our times it would be no gap at all/and all would have tech from 2150/

If Chicora learn anything from History,they would carve their Empire in 1875,when they still could.And in places where locals/Chile indians,blacks in Africa/ would welcome them as saviours.

To be honest,if i was in their shoes i would help Mexico reclaim their lands,too.And liberate Ireland,too.
Poland and Hungary...nah,i would not fight 3 european powers with big armies.Or even one.

Um by 1975 Chicora will already be at Star Trek level of tech. Aka able get to Alpha Centauri and back in a decent time. You seem to be not getting what I have been saying. Chicora is all about technological advancement. They want to explore and colonize the Solar System. So they invest heavily into science and engineering. A good chunk of they efforts go into pushing the limits of technological innovation. The powers at the time want to conquer and gain territory on Earth. Chicora has it's eyes on the Solar System. And they will reach it way way faster than the other powers can dream. They are already doing the work for a manned moon mission in 8 years time.