Not just two states. Every blue coastal state except the little entirely urbanized postage stamps in the Greater New York metropolitan area.
United States 8 Oregon counties vote to secede and join Idaho
- Thread starter stephen the barbarian
- Start date
Skallagrim
Well-known member
At some point, I've outlined an idea to have two Congresses and two Presidents. One "rural" and one "urban". In other words: the big metropoleis elect their own to govern them, and the back-country does the same. They are in a league with each other, but don't control each other's domestic affairs at all. On foreign affairs, they vote together, and any proposal (e.g. a declaration of war, or entry into a treaty) requires the assent of both.
That is obviously a far-fetched notion, but that's probably the closest one might get to vaguely representative government. And I would support it for any country, not just the USA specifically.
That's....probably the quickest route to Civil War I've heard yet.
Heck, lf we had a innovative political leadership, I could already see a easy compromise: make Red Cascadia, Admit DC as a state and add Puerto Rico. Three new states, one red, one blue, and one swing. Everyone is happy. Sadly we don’t have innovative leadership.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Rather, the avoidance of one. Forced unity is what creates pressure. Give things a bit more space, and the pressure is reduced.
Right now, a state like Illinois is politically dominated by Chicago. But now imagine that the Chigaco metropolis is a state unto itself, separate from Illinois. Imagine New York City as a state and the rest of New York as another state. Imagine Los Angeles as a state.
This would already be a great improvement. But then ask yourself: what does Los Angeles have in common with North Dakota? They might as well be on different planets. The only concrete political interest they share is the one of economic advantage (free trade within the Union) and geo-political security (the Union stands together when facing the outside world). That's it, really.
I mean... the European Union is already unbearable to all sensible persons, and that's less intrusive than the current central government of the USA. And let me tell you: fucking Amsterdam and rural Poland have about as much in common as LA and North Dakota do. Not much.
we have a common language.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Speaking as a well-travelled American, LA and North Dakota have a lot more in common than Amsterdam and Rural Poland.
A lot less than fellow citizens in a nation should, but a lot more than that.
And if you go back 50-60 years, before leftists had overtaken the educational system, they'd have a heck of a lot more in common too.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
When I see the bitter divides, the utterly opposed views, between dramatically different parts of the United States -- as an outsider gazing upon it -- it seems like all the commonalities are increasingly superficial, and the stark differences ever more central to the identity of the opposing sides. (And this is seen all over the world, and within all countries, but the USA is so big that it plays out on a large, continental scale within the borders of the continent-country.)
To put that in the context of the thread: regardless of how it's resolved, I understand why those regions of Eastern Oregon want to be away from the coastal regions, and I think the reasons that compel them in this will only grow stronger over time. Not just there, but everywhere.
Sure, but back then, there was way more rural Netherlands left, too-- and it was way more conservative, and the attitudes of its inhabitants had way more in common with the attitudes of those in rural Poland. The same trend in seen everywhere.
The big cities have grown like tumours, and the power of central governments everywhere has grown in the same period. Since the central goverment is invariably seated in the big city, we are now all under the yoke of the city-men. But they are ever more alienated from what they deem "the unimportant back-country"-- which therefore chafes more and more under the current system.
This is where the increasing calls for various splits and re-arrangements come from. (See also the thread on the Dutch farmer protests, for instance. Or the whole matter of US states having very different ideas about abortion. None of these are isolated subjects; they are facets of the same struggle.)
Certainly. And use it to express fundamentally different ideas, which are mutually alien and hostile to each other.
I truly believe that people who have different languages but the same values have far more in common with each other than do people with the same language but different values.
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Batrix2070
RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
It's true, I'm reminded of a certain Rokosz*, probably Zebrzydowski's where there was a division between Poles and Lithuanians, the latter, due to Polish cultural superiority, were largely assimilated to the point that no one knew Lithuanian.
So what was going on? Lithuanians(nobles) insulted Poles(nobles) in Polish, while marking their separateness, Even though both sides spoke the same language! A common language made little difference.
*Rokosz is an interesting thing, because it is the right to revolt against authority. When I was younger and influenced by the prevailing historical propaganda, Rokosze was portrayed as something bad and a weakness of the PLC, now I see that it was a good mechanism to defend the Polish system against tyrants. Of course, it was a double-edged sword, sometimes Rokoszs ended badly, but many of them were quite right.
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
Puerto Rico should become the 51st State: make it a Blue State.
DC should be annexed by Virginia
stephen the barbarian
Well-known member
Virginia already took it's lands back,
Maryland ceded the remaining lands to the feds
Buba
A total creep
I fully support their secession effort. One great way to achieve greater self-determination is to do it internally. It's much better than a complete and total breakup of the US, that's for sure!
I really hope that she wins since we need more hott governors here in the US lol!
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
Tudor Dixon of MichiganI really hope that she wins since we need more hott governors here in the US lol!
Sergeant Foley
Well-known member
Intriguing
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Update: We're up to 11 counties now and gaining. A general map plan has been produced.
As commentators have noted, this is highly unlikely to actually do anything. Moving land from Oregon to Idaho requires the agreement of Idaho's legislature, Oregon's, and Congress. Given that this would move seats from one party to another, it's highly unlikely to succeed unless said party (you know who you are) has a pretty solid lock on congress, and even then Oregon probably won't consent to lose 400,000 voters who count for the purpose of giving them seats but can be ignored because they're outnumbered by Portland.
This is beyond the fact that the government probably isn't keen on people getting the idea that they can secede, even within the same country, from governments they don't like and that don't care for them.
As commentators have noted, this is highly unlikely to actually do anything. Moving land from Oregon to Idaho requires the agreement of Idaho's legislature, Oregon's, and Congress. Given that this would move seats from one party to another, it's highly unlikely to succeed unless said party (you know who you are) has a pretty solid lock on congress, and even then Oregon probably won't consent to lose 400,000 voters who count for the purpose of giving them seats but can be ignored because they're outnumbered by Portland.
This is beyond the fact that the government probably isn't keen on people getting the idea that they can secede, even within the same country, from governments they don't like and that don't care for them.
You know...I really want those counties to join Idaho...b/c, then, the state will look like it's giving the middle finger to everyone else!
