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Since the question is now veering off towards another -- but related -- topic, I refer you to this thread, where my most recent post gives an outline of what I expect.

WikiLeaks was involved in publishing classified military information of the USA, an act that is illegal in I believe all NATO countries. Wikileaks is active in the USA. The USA has started an investigation into this organisation, which Assange at that time headed. Geert Wilders has said that...

The case here is that Turkey launched a lawsuit, a formal investigation and another criminal complaint against Dutch politicians (most prominently the noted Islam-critical Geert Wilders). With the purpose of ensuring that if Erdogan's targets were ever in a country with an extradition with...

I'll ignore your endless repetition of falsehoods about "half of NATO" supposedly being as bad as Turkey, because I don't recall Macron ever trying to have Dutch politician extradited to Turkey for thoughtcrime (by Turkish standards), nor do I recall the USA theatening to flood the EU with...

It's not paranoia, it's observation and deduction. The fact that you don't see what Turkey is really like is your problem. "We are allow ourselves to be pushed around, and that how we're proving that we're really standing our ground!" What kind ass-backward logic is that? It isn't useful to...

That sounds like a dignified solution for the immediate issue. I support this. :cool:

The current century summed up in a single sentence.

Again, your blatant hypocrisy is on display. First, you go on and on abot nations having no allies and geo-politics being cut-throat and only intended for pure opportunism. When I point out that my view actually derives from a view not unlike that, you suddenly start to claim we have to be...

My problem with your idea is that your whole basis for the need to appease Turkey is your failure to see that they can't be trusted and your blind faith that they won't betray us despite clear evidence to the contrary. (Something you fail to recognise, despite having in fact cited examples...

Secularism is already past its prime. Religiosity is on the rise world-wide, including in the West (yes, even when you completely discount the migration of Muslims). You know what also tends to drive religious upsurges? Bad times. You know what we're in for? Yup, bad times. The current economic...

You can call me many things, but a communist I am decidely not. Nor have I at any point advocated giving the Kurds anything, so your smear is nonsensical -- like the rest of your posts here. Evidently, you cannot face the fact that your inexplicable submission to Turkish interests is illogical...

What's that? I can't hear you. Please take Erdogan's cock out of your mouth before responding. :p

I'm just going to snip your post now, because you fankly don't raise any arguments. You just keep turning all logic on its head, consistently shifting the burden of proof, and trying to make it so that even though Turkey actively sabotages NATO's plans, we have to justify our behaviour to...

You're defending the suicidal, and dismissing the indispensable as "impossible". Again: thanks for your insight, mr. Chamberlain. Another cup of concentrated appeasement juice for you, then? Look at Russia right now. My view is based on visible evidence. This great Bear cannot even take Kiev. I...

It is evident that your view is the idealistic fantasy one -- a view that we'll yet come to bitterly regret ever entertaining. Please do not project that onto me; you're the one who thinks letting enemies inside the gate is a good idea, and that gives you no basis for accusing others of a lack...

Thanks for the elaboration, mr Chamberlain. I'm sure that your careful policy towards Herr Erdogan has indeed secured peace in our time! Meanwhile, in the real world, bending to the whims of thugs only makes them ever bolder. Surely you must know that, since you talk of nations having no...

"They are not like us and they are a threat, that's why they, uh... should be in our club! Yeah!" Total insanity. I am truly astonished that you are so eager to bend over for the Turks. What sense is there in that? If "nations have no friends" and the Turks are a threat, that's a motive to...

Is your argument really "he's also done way worse, and he could quite plausibly do way worse stuff now"? Because that only underpins my thesis that Turkey -- at least under that Erdogan and his thuggish cronies -- is not an ally and therefore shouldn't be treated as an ally. A true ally, bound...

Yet more proof that, contrary to what some people here think, Turkey is a hostile power that should not be in NATO. The talk about "B-but then they'll ally with our enemies!" is pure stupidity. They are already in league with our enemies. They are an enemy. And enemies should be outside the...

"Again"? We haven't discussed this before, so hardly "again". Nor am I motived by liberal beliefs. My motivation is that Turkey is not a friend, and not even an ally. They are a scorpion that we have pressed to our chest, and I see no reason to keep the damned creature there. I don't care much...