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  1. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    I know what perennial wisdom means, and I am well aware of the bolded. Fact still remains that your argument that "Nazis believe in perennial wisdom therefore they are reactionaries" is nonsense, because as I pointed out, Communists also were trying to create what they saw as a traditionalist...
  2. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    It is literally a response to your post. You said that Communists If you had ready literally any of the original Communist writings you will have known that your statement is just wrong. Communism is entirely based around reconstructing idealized prehistoric society as a way of building...
  3. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Please at least read some Communist works before talking about Communism, because otherwise this makes no sense. Or, you know, just do a five-second Google search. That works as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Marxist_communism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_communism...
  4. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Marx literally described hunter-gatherer societies as "primitive Communism". No, it is not. There are many things in which they are similar, true, but they are not the same. For one, Fascism focuses primarily on state and state authority; for Nazism, state is merely an extension of race.
  5. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    By that logic, Communists were also traditionalists. Communism itself is based on belief in perennial wisdom and that western civilization was corrupted from said wisdom; Communists basically wanted a return to idealized prehistoric society. So no, what you are saying still doesn't make sense...
  6. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    "German tradition" beginning from when, exactly? Worship of progress is inherently leftist. Just because Weimar republic was even more to the left doesn't make Nazis "not leftist". It is in the ideology that they definitely were socialist. Let's see the Communist Manifesto: Abolition of...
  7. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Thing is that Nazism was never going to have Communism's lifespan, so that misses the point. You see, Nazism was pretty obviously evil. It was tried once, and nobody sane will ever try it again. Most neo-Nazis are basically edgelords who see that current world is in shit and are pulling to the...
  8. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Leftist ideology need not be authoritarian, but non-authoritarian leftist ideologies always develop into authoritarian practice anyway. If you reject reality and decide to create your own, authoritarianism is the only possible outcome. Kibbutz and communes are not large-scale. Leftism can...
  9. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    We were talking about societies, organizations and ideologies here, last I checked. None of which has anything to do with individuals. Also, when word "Left" is used, it typically means Left as a collective, not a leftist individual (had I meant that, I would have written "Leftist". In singular...
  10. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Right. I never said that authoritarianism is inherently left-wing: However, left-wing is necessarily authoritarian, as they have to be in order to reform the society in way they want.
  11. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    If you remove "simply authoritarian" from Left, you are left with basically nothing. Also, "racial supremacy" isn't inherently rightist value. Leftists can be racial supremacists as well. Left-wing vs right-wing comes basically to acceptance vs rejection of modernism. Nazism has both...
  12. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    I was talking specifically about Soviet Communists. Stalin and especially Gorbachev were less evil than modern-day progressives. Problem is that Progressivism is essentially original Communism of Lenin's vibe.
  13. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    As I said: Nazis had a mix of traditional and progressive ideas. And by progressive ideas, I mean, "ideas that would not be out of place in the Communist party of the time". Difference is that Communists started out by wanting to destroy society itself (something taken up by modern-day...
  14. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    That is a much better definition, though I would argue that even Nazi cultural traditionalism is... rather limited. They had this weird mix of some very traditional ideas combined with some very progressive ones. Basically, they were all over the scale, but I would still say that they were far...
  15. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    I agree that there are right-wing authoritarians, but not that Fascism is one of these. Right-wing authoritarian would be Francisco Franco (who is often labeled a Fascist, but I don't think that label is correct). But Fascism specifically is an attempt at merging a disparate mix of left-wing...
  16. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Except if you want to be ground-up, you have to be right-wing, because Left-wing has literally nothing with which to replace the tradition and other things which allowed and allow for right-wing pseudo-anarchist communes to function. All I have ever heard of lefty hippie communes and Kibbutzes...
  17. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Nazism is at best an extremist ideology of the center, as I have said before. Entire "horseshoe theory" is just a bullshit attempt to present centrist ideologies as inherently good, when reality is that any ideology can turn genocidal - yes, that includes liberal democracy as well. Let's see...
  18. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Both are socialist ideologies, and Hitler used to be a member of the Communist Party of Germany in 1919 I think, but that doesn't necessarily mean Nazism itself is a variant of Communism. I'd rather say they are sister ideologies.
  19. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    While I agree with everything else, bolded part is not entirely true. On one hand, Nazis were willing to make exceptions to their genocidal policies. If you were useful, it didn't matter whether you were a Jew, a Slav or whatever. They'd just slap an "Honorary Aryan" title - like they did for...
  20. Aldarion

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    I didn't say they were honest, period. I said they were more honest than Communists, which is a fact. Honestly, if you think Nazis are the "biggest liars of all of time", you really need to brush up on your history. And yes, Hitler was quite open about genocide...
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