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  1. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    But it wasn't. Marx didn't believe that, for one. He though communism would be a new thing (he literally wrote a history method as an example). They're a subset. Fascism means both the Italians under Mussolini, and blood and soil Autacracies, usually European, with a fair bit of command...
  2. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Agreed. Sorry, missed that word. Doh, my fault. But agreed. My issue with your list, though, is that some of elements you list as modernity are really just authoritarian, and others weren't modern for Germany, but instead a return to German tradition. First, the "industrialism, militarism...
  3. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    That's the thing. I was talking about an ideology. A leftist ideology or even a leftist organization need not be authoritarian. But large enough leftist societies are. See, that's not true. Kibbutz and communes being a hallmark example. Usually the ideology turns authoritarian when hit with...
  4. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    A left wing society is. A left wing person doesn't have to be. In fact, there were some early left wingers who were some of the first to speak out against Stalin's horrors when many on the left didn't want to hear. Emma Goldman being a good example of this: very much a leftist, but also very...
  5. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Stalin also murdered spirit. Far more than progressivism has done. You underestimate how evil Stalin was. Stalin wasn't just presented as a good thing, he was the savior. So many people who were purged were sure that if Stalin knew of this they would be saved, even praising Stalin with their...
  6. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Good point. Handled. The left wing ideas you attributed to it aren't left wing though. They are simply authoritarian. Basically, I don't view total control over the economy as leftist. I view it as authoritarian. The purpose for which the total control is done is what makes it leftist or...
  7. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Kinda. Yes, that is the only way they can function. But, and this is an important but, that doesn't make authoritarianism a tenet of leftism, just an emergent property. And more importantly, it doesn't make anti-authoritarianism a property of Rightism. There's right authoritarians. And that's...
  8. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    See, I completely disagree with this definition. You've completely combined two axes into one. Right wing has very little reliance on being ground up. Frequently it is, frequently it's the other way around. It's utterly orthagonal to that. Leftists also can do ground up stuff, like hippie...
  9. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Fascism is actually the Italian version, with Nazism being the German version, but Fascism also has become the general term for Nazi-like ideologies. I'm talking about fascism in general, including Spain under Franco, Mussolini's Italy, and the Third Reich. As for it being right wing...
  10. Abhorsen

    History Split off derail: Discussion of Nazism vs Communism

    Agreed. It isn't quite communism. It swaps the class organization for race. TBC, I do see it as a philosophy of the right even though it's very similar to communism, and that's because there's some truth to horseshoe theory. Basically, instead of a the traditional political compass being...
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