Five minutes of hate news

The US government not giving a damn is exactly the problem.
Why should USA care about people who decide to work for the intelligence services of a rival power?
Their spy, their duty to care about him and pull him out of the fire. They certainly have enough POWs stashed away to exchange him for if they cared.
They don't care and the spy is an amateur? Not USA's problem, it's FSB's reputation "in the business" on the line.
Funny, he wasn't accused of that. He was arrested for "production and dissemination of materials justifying Russia's armed aggression against Ukraine." That's free speech.
Not in Ukraine. Not in wartime. Wouldn't be even in USA in wartime. Plenty of Germany simps in propaganda business were arrested after USA joined WW2.
Though he did get executed by delaying medical help, so you got your bloodthirsty wish. I understand you don't consider russians as human and your bloodthirst and racism knows no bounds, but I thought you might have an exception for an American who disagreed with you. I guess not.
Do we really need this sort of provocation?
If you go to a poor country, stay there in wartime, and decide to go out of your way to get into trouble, while being in poor health, and then complain about bad healthcare access and quality in prison... i don't know what to tell you. Should there be an IQ test for leaving the country?
 
Why should USA care about people who decide to work for the intelligence services of a rival power?
Their spy, their duty to care about him and pull him out of the fire. They certainly have enough POWs stashed away to exchange him for if they cared.
They don't care and the spy is an amateur? Not USA's problem, it's FSB's reputation "in the business" on the line.

Not in Ukraine. Not in wartime. Wouldn't be even in USA in wartime. Plenty of Germany simps in propaganda business were arrested after USA joined WW2.

Do we really need this sort of provocation?
If you go to a poor country, stay there in wartime, and decide to go out of your way to get into trouble, while being in poor health, and then complain about bad healthcare access and quality in prison... i don't know what to tell you. Should there be an IQ test for leaving the country?
Lira was stupid enough to think he could do all sorts of shit to support Russia while in Ukraine, and suddenly found out his status as a US citizen wasn't going to protect him from when he repeatedly acted on the behalf of the power invading UA's lands.

That some people don't understand these simple facts shows how hard the Russia simps and isolationists have tried to twist the narrative of what Lira did and the context around it to make him some sort of martyr.
 
Why should USA care about people who decide to work for the intelligence services of a rival power?
Their spy, their duty to care about him and pull him out of the fire. They certainly have enough POWs stashed away to exchange him for if they cared.
They don't care and the spy is an amateur? Not USA's problem, it's FSB's reputation "in the business" on the line.
Had that been proven, sure, you could have maybe worked from there. But it wasn't. All that was shown was a free speech violation.

Not in Ukraine. Not in wartime. Wouldn't be even in USA in wartime. Plenty of Germany simps in propaganda business were arrested after USA joined WW2.
There wasn't actually free speech in the US at the time, the US opinion towards anti-war speech changed rapidly after we got real free speech protections. So that's a totally irrelevant standard.

If Ukraine had arrested him as a spy, an argument could be made. But for a free speech violation? Nope.

If you go to a poor country, stay there in wartime, and decide to go out of your way to get into trouble, while being in poor health, and then complain about bad healthcare access and quality in prison... i don't know what to tell you. Should there be an IQ test for leaving the country?
We do this all the time for people who make stupider decisions, like those who visit North Korea, who we are still at war with. Yes, Lira was stupid. But the US was perfectly positioned to get him back, and the US not doing so for a journalist is bad.

Lira was stupid enough to think he could do all sorts of shit to support Russia while in Ukraine, and suddenly found out his status as a US citizen wasn't going to protect him from when he repeatedly acted on the behalf of the power invading UA's lands.

That some people don't understand these simple facts shows how hard the Russia simps and isolationists have tried to twist the narrative of what Lira did and the context around it to make him some sort of martyr.
Lira wasn't convicted of spying, nor tried for spying, nor arrested for spying. He was arrested for journalism. The US's first duty should be to it's citizens, not another country.

Also, it's cute that you said you didn't want to talk to me anymore, yet seem to follow me around to threads and stealth reply to things I say. Everyone can see through you.
 
His father repeatedly contacted the Embassy. There's reason to doubt Lira was able to once he was arrested.
Okay? He had plenty of time before he got arrested to get out
The US government not giving a damn is exactly the problem.
Why should they care about someone who actively git caught spying on AD?
Funny, he wasn't accused of that. He was arrested for "production and dissemination of materials justifying Russia's armed aggression against Ukraine." That's free speech.
Yes because they let him go for the saying stuff because of how bad he was at it...
Though he did get executed by delaying medical help, so you got your bloodthirsty wish. I understand you don't consider russians as human and your bloodthirst and racism knows no bounds, but I thought you might have an exception for an American who disagreed with you. I guess not.
Not his fault he didn't leave when the war started, and kept antagonizing his wife's people
 
Had that been proven, sure, you could have maybe worked from there. But it wasn't. All that was shown was a free speech violation.
How do you know it wasn't proven? If it was, such proof would not be public and would stay between the SBU and US embassy.
Ironically, SBU decided to legally bag him on the publicly very provable Russian propaganda law, possibly to avoid the secrecy issue.
There wasn't actually free speech in the US at the time, the US opinion towards anti-war speech changed rapidly after we got real free speech protections. So that's a totally irrelevant standard.

If Ukraine had arrested him as a spy, an argument could be made. But for a free speech violation? Nope.
Free speech? In wartime? Propagandizing for the invading power? No, that's not just your garden variety free speech violation. It was activism, not journalism. They suffered his bullshit for years before the war, which demonstrates a lot of tolerance for disagreeable speech, and then some. But it was war and he was on notice.
We do this all the time for people who make stupider decisions, like those who visit North Korea, who we are still at war with. Yes, Lira was stupid. But the US was perfectly positioned to get him back, and the US not doing so for a journalist is bad.
Those are merely retarded, not getting in trouble for supporting a third side that USA also hates. The latter alone gets him into a whole another layer of shit.
Lira wasn't convicted of spying, nor tried for spying, nor arrested for spying. He was arrested for journalism. The US's first duty should be to it's citizens, not another country.
No, he was arrested for being an agent of influence for a country in active war against the arresting country. He was even tolerated for doing the same before the active war part happened and then for months too, but he was *really* trying to get into trouble despite warnings.

By doing that, he was serving that country, not USA. USA has duty towards its citizens, but it gets more complicated if said citizen commits legitimate crimes against the country in question, especially if USA also sees them as such, and then it's up to the government to weight these concerns.

Say, a US citizen goes to some poor country and gets caught committing cannibalmurderrape.
As common in poor countries, the prisons there are nasty, uncomfortable and dangerous.
USA has no duty to put the same effort, or any at all, into protecting him and helping him as if it would give to another citizen who was arrested for no good reason or something very iffy.
 
Why should they care about someone who actively git caught spying on AD?
He didn't. He got arrested for doing journalism the government disagreed with.

How do you know it wasn't proven? If it was, such proof would not be public and would stay between the SBU and US embassy.
Ironically, SBU decided to legally bag him on the publicly very provable Russian propaganda law, possibly to avoid the secrecy issue.
Because what he was convicted for and arrested are of public record? No, if the info is secret, it doesn't count, because quite frankly a) I don't trust either Biden's State Department nor the SBU, and b) I don't believe in secret trials.

By doing that, he was serving that country, not USA. USA has duty towards its citizens, but it gets more complicated if said citizen commits legitimate crimes against the country in question, especially if USA also sees them as such, and then it's up to the government to weight these concerns.
Journalism is never a legitimate crime. Neither is speech. And like it or not, that's what he was convicted of and charged with: 1st amendment protected activities.
 
He didn't. He got arrested for doing journalism the government disagreed with.


Because what he was convicted for and arrested are of public record? No, if the info is secret, it doesn't count,
Its war, it does count, if you think you can run an effective intelligence and counter-intelligence agency without classifying your intel gathering operations, i think a lot of countries in the world would like to hear from you and make you rich, if not, wait a few years or decades so that it becomes no longer sensitive.
because quite frankly a) I don't trust either Biden's State Department nor the SBU, and b) I don't believe in secret trials.
His "journalism" is all over the internet. Feel free to examine the body of evidence, even if i feel sorry for the waste of time, and then tell me he's not guilty of what he's being accused for.
Journalism is never a legitimate crime. Neither is speech. And like it or not, that's what he was convicted of and charged with: 1st amendment protected activities.
The law of the land in Ukraine is Ukrainian, not US.
Being a Russian agent of influence in wartime against Russia is a perfectly reasonable thing to imprison, even kill people for, and no one gives a shit if they call that journalism, fiction writing, art, historical research, human rights activism, or a religious ritual, it is what it is.
 
Its war, it does count, if you think you can run an effective intelligence and counter-intelligence agency without classifying your intel gathering operations, i think a lot of countries in the world would like to hear from you and make you rich, if not, wait a few years or decades so that it becomes no longer sensitive.
Yet if you are so certain this is the case using publicly available information, why can't Ukraine do that? I mean, apparently the info is good enough for you to not care that it killed a US citizen, it should be good enough to convict Gonzolo Lira.

The law of the land in Ukraine is Ukrainian, not US.
Being a Russian agent of influence in wartime against Russia is a perfectly reasonable thing to imprison, even kill people for, and no one gives a shit if they call that journalism, fiction writing, art, historical research, human rights activism, or a religious ritual, it is what it is.
That's nice, but he wasn't convicted for being a russian agent. He was convicted for 1A activity. I literally could not give less of a shit what the law of the land is btw. I care that the US protects it's citizen's speech abroad. If the US empire means anything, it should at least stand for that.
 
Yet if you are so certain this is the case using publicly available information, why can't Ukraine do that?
They are kinda busy fighting a war. I don't think creating huge analyses and arguments for the sole objective of convincing some people who care about the fate of some third rate internet personality who hated them anyway that he was supporting the invaders even though his public activities are kinda clear about that sentiment of his is high on their list of priorities.
I mean, apparently the info is good enough for you to not care that it killed a US citizen, it should be good enough to convict Gonzolo Lira.
Well they did convict him either way.
That's nice, but he wasn't convicted for being a russian agent. He was convicted for 1A activity.
A lot of 1A activities stop being defensible as that during wartime even in USA and other western countries. While USA is not in wartime, Ukraine is.
When USA was in wartime, it even had an actual office of censorship.
I literally could not give less of a shit what the law of the land is btw. I care that the US protects it's citizen's speech abroad. If the US empire means anything, it should at least stand for that.
For propagandists of its rival powers as long as they have the citizenship paper?
It would be one thing if he was propagandizing for USA, or its ally. But in this case, why not wait for the country he was supporting by speech very vocally to help him?
 
Yet if you are so certain this is the case using publicly available information, why can't Ukraine do that? I mean, apparently the info is good enough for you to not care that it killed a US citizen, it should be good enough to convict Gonzolo Lira.


That's nice, but he wasn't convicted for being a russian agent. He was convicted for 1A activity. I literally could not give less of a shit what the law of the land is btw. I care that the US protects it's citizen's speech abroad. If the US empire means anything, it should at least stand for that.
He openly admitted to trying to give AD locations to the FSB.
Ukraine didn't arrest him as he did it stupidly.
He got arrested for constantly wishing the invader would win and even calling missiles striking major cities fake...
 
He openly admitted to trying to give AD locations to the FSB.
Ukraine didn't arrest him as he did it stupidly.
He got arrested for constantly wishing the invader would win and even calling missiles striking major cities fake...
If he admitted it so openly, then arrest him for that instead. Don't use a BS charge. This isn't rocket science.

They are kinda busy fighting a war. I don't think creating huge analyses and arguments for the sole objective of convincing some people who care about the fate of some third rate internet personality who hated them anyway that he was supporting the invaders even though his public activities are kinda clear about that sentiment of his is high on their list of priorities.
Cool, if what he did didn't matter, then it should have been no issue for the US to request him back.

Shockingly, I want the US government to support US citizens, not a foreign government.
Well they did convict him either way.
Of a BS crime. It's like arguing that a person was convicted of a crime by the Norks. We all know it's BS, they just did something the regime didn't like.
A lot of 1A activities stop being defensible as that during wartime even in USA and other western countries. While USA is not in wartime, Ukraine is.
When USA was in wartime, it even had an actual office of censorship.
"I don't understand how 1A works, nor history" - Marduk

Yeah, that office of censorship? If you had read it, it was a voluntary code followed by US journalists. It had no power to actually force censorship.

But moreover, we didn't actually have free speech then. The relevant supreme court opinions hadn't happened yet.

You are doing the equivalent of justifying foreign slavery by saying the US has it, then citing the Dred Scott decision.

For propagandists of its rival powers as long as they have the citizenship paper?
It would be one thing if it was propagandizing for USA, or its ally. But in this case, why not wait for the country he was supporting by speech very vocally to help him?
Because he's a US citizen? Duh?
 
If he admitted it so openly, then arrest him for that instead. Don't use a BS charge. This isn't rocket science.
True, it's not rocket science, it's the cloak and dagger science, not your ordinary legalistic argument.
Cool, if what he did didn't matter, then it should have been no issue for the US to request him back.

Shockingly, I want the US government to support US citizens, not a foreign government.
I know we have certain ideological disagreements going well beyond national loyalties and borders.
I for one would like my country to not support, bah, in more severe cases even assassinate certain citizens, if they are doing certain things beyond the reach of the legal system in geographic and political sense.
Of a BS crime. It's like arguing that a person was convicted of a crime by the Norks. We all know it's BS, they just did something the regime didn't like.
No, "we all know he was doing sedition in time of war", two can play at this game.
"I don't understand how 1A works, nor history" - Marduk

Yeah, that office of censorship? If you had read it, it was a voluntary code followed by US journalists. It had no power to actually force censorship.

But moreover, we didn't actually have free speech then. The relevant supreme court opinions hadn't happened yet.
Yeah, yeah, it's not real free speech unless it's exactly what i think we have right now in a different situation.
Wait for an actual, declared war with China, then we will talk, if we still can.
You are doing the equivalent of justifying foreign slavery by saying the US has it, then citing the Dred Scott decision.
Nope, don't care anyway.
Because he's a US citizen? Duh?
Do you want US government to extract every single criminal with US papers from every prison in the world that has less than first world standards? Is it limited to certain crimes? All crimes? Or just those hit for supporting foreign powers USA doesn't like?
Regardless of what people think he did or didn't do, certainly we can agree they shouldn't have killed him? Or "let him die through inaction" or whatever technicality.
Yes they didn't kill him, he died of disease due to poor healthcare in prison. Which also happens in other countries, probably even USA, just to a different degree. In a fairy tale world everyone should have perfect healthcare inside and outside prison, but we don't live in a fairy tale world. Ukraine is a poorer country and at war, so they have a better excuse than most. No one forced him to live there or get himself into prison despite ample warning, yet he did both, this is Darwin award grade behavior.
 
If he admitted it so openly, then arrest him for that instead. Don't use a BS charge. This isn't rocket science.


Cool, if what he did didn't matter, then it should have been no issue for the US to request him back.

Shockingly, I want the US government to support US citizens, not a foreign government.

Of a BS crime. It's like arguing that a person was convicted of a crime by the Norks. We all know it's BS, they just did something the regime didn't like.

"I don't understand how 1A works, nor history" - Marduk

Yeah, that office of censorship? If you had read it, it was a voluntary code followed by US journalists. It had no power to actually force censorship.

But moreover, we didn't actually have free speech then. The relevant supreme court opinions hadn't happened yet.

You are doing the equivalent of justifying foreign slavery by saying the US has it, then citing the Dred Scott decision.


Because he's a US citizen? Duh?
Here is article, from Ukraine as they seem to be the only ones going into everything he did, about him from 2023.
He'll, it tells exactly what he did


Huh, apperently he even tried to do American journalists in Ukraine to the Russians
Regardless of what people think he did or didn't do, certainly we can agree they shouldn't have killed him? Or "let him die through inaction" or whatever technicality.
What could they have done?
The people he supported ended the power to where he was, and the hospital was unlikely to be able to get him to a new one.
The lives lost due to power outages at hospitals is unknown.
 
Yeah, yeah, it's not real free speech unless it's exactly what i think we have right now in a different situation.
Wait for an actual, declared war with China, then we will talk, if we still can.
... No, literally, most of the free speech cases came after WW2. You are citing dead law that was rightly overturned. In the wars since those rulings, there wasn't censorship.

You are clearly demonstrating you don't know what you are talking about here.

And if they do violate it? Well then, I'll oppose the US and China. Because that won't be America, that will just be a tyrannical government wearing the stars and stripes as a skinsuit.
Nope, don't care anyway.
Yup. You are citing law that has long been overturned for a BS comparison. You are showing how little about 1A you actually know.
Do you want US government to extract every single criminal with US papers from every prison in the world that has less than first world standards? Is it limited to certain crimes? All crimes? Or just those hit for supporting foreign powers USA doesn't like?
If the crime wouldn't be a crime in the US/done to the US, then extract every citizen wrongly imprisoned. So had he been proven a spy, sure. Since he wasn't, extract unless he does get proven a spy.

Here is article, from Ukraine as they seem to be the only ones going into everything he did, about him from 2023.
He'll, it tells exactly what he did

Huh, apperently he even tried to do American journalists in Ukraine to the Russians
If it's so easy to convict him, then convict him of an actual crime.
 
... No, literally, most of the free speech cases came after WW2. You are citing dead law that was rightly overturned. In the wars since those rulings, there wasn't censorship.

You are clearly demonstrating you don't know what you are talking about here.

And if they do violate it? Well then, I'll oppose the US and China. Because that won't be America, that will just be a tyrannical government wearing the stars and stripes as a skinsuit.

Yup. You are citing law that has long been overturned for a BS comparison. You are showing how little about 1A you actually know.

If the crime wouldn't be a crime in the US/done to the US, then extract every citizen wrongly imprisoned. So had he been proven a spy, sure. Since he wasn't, extract unless he does get proven a spy.


If it's so easy to convict him, then convict him of an actual crime.
Did....did you read what it says?
He committed an actual crime in Ukraine.
No matter what nation you are a citizen of, you have to obey the laws of the country you are in.
He was outright spreading false information about Russian missiles.
And again, he was spreading Ukrianian defender positions to the public.
He was charged with the crime that entails that
 
... No, literally, most of the free speech cases came after WW2. You are citing dead law that was rightly overturned. In the wars since those rulings, there wasn't censorship.
Of course it's dead, USA would have to be in another major and declared war for it to be properly tested again.
You are clearly demonstrating you don't know what you are talking about here.

And if they do violate it? Well then, I'll oppose the US and China. Because that won't be America, that will just be a tyrannical government wearing the stars and stripes as a skinsuit.
"Tyranny" is if you can't propagandize for invading power during a war.
Ok...
If the choice is between losing a war to a proper tyranny or supporting "tyranny", i'll pick the lesser evil.
Yup. You are citing law that has long been overturned for a BS comparison. You are showing how little about 1A you actually know.
If we play the legalism cards, fine, it's still not in USA, and US government doesn't claim that all its citizens anywhere in the world have exactly the same legal protections as they do from US law in USA.
If the crime wouldn't be a crime in the US/done to the US, then extract every citizen wrongly imprisoned. So had he been proven a spy, sure. Since he wasn't, extract unless he does get proven a spy.
He was proven a propagandist, and also doxing soldiers and military positions during war, or whatever it is called there, according to Ukrainian law.
If it's so easy to convict him, then convict him of an actual crime.
He was convicted of an actual crime, i understand you don't like Ukrainian law, i'm sure you also don't like what US law says about some speech related things, especially after Patriot Act stuff, and you are probably wrong about some interpretations of it even in US, but whatever, no matter which one of us is wrong on which of these things, that doesn't mean you get to be a global supreme court judge who decides what constitutes an actual crime.
 
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This. No country will evacuate their citizen from another country at war against his will while he wants to stay there being retarded and committing crimes against allies.
No one has reached such a level of nanny state yet.
Not unlike the earlier, even more controversial case of non-militant ISIL supporters moving to ME.
What crimes did he commit exactly? Honest, proper and legal journalism instead of Zelensky propaganda ?
 
Did....did you read what it says?
He committed an actual crime in Ukraine.
No matter what nation you are a citizen of, you have to obey the laws of the country you are in.
He was outright spreading false information about Russian missiles.
And again, he was spreading Ukrianian defender positions to the public.
He was charged with the crime that entails that
No, fuck those crimes. I literally don't care about their BS crimes at all. I care about actual crimes, not kangaroo court BS.
Of course it's dead, USA would have to be in another major and declared war for it to be properly tested again.
Again, you ably demonstrate your ignorance of history and law. Voluntary censorship is completely different than arresting journalists. More so when it came before the US had free speech rights.
"Tyranny" is if you can't propagandize for invading power during a war.
Ok...
If the choice is between losing a war to a tyranny or supporting "tyranny", i'll pick the lesser evil.
When you lose the 1a, yeah, that's tyranny. I'm sorry you only support speech when it agrees with you.

He was proven a propagandist, and also doxing soldiers and military positions during war, or whatever it is called there, according to Ukrainian law.
Literally couldn't give one shit, much less two, about Ukrainian 'law'. If they had tried with an actual crime, then I'd care.

Let's take your argument to it's logical conclusion: Person in Gaza get's killed by Hamas for opposing Hamas. Marduk: "Well, there's nothing wrong with that, you should obey the law."

i'm sure you also don't like what US law says about some speech related things,
I'm sure you don't know what US law says about speech related things. Again, you have no idea what you are talking about if you are citing anything before Brandenburg v Ohio/ Skokie about what free speech is.
especially after Patriot Act stuff
Lol. The patriot act doesn't really implicate free speech. It's mostly about surveillance. They specifically used the term "Material support to Terrorists" to avoid this. Basically, it's the same grounds as spying: you can't give the enemy advice, but you can advocate for the enemy.

He was convicted of an actual crime, i understand you don't like Ukrainian law, i'm sure you also don't like what US law says about some speech related things, especially after Patriot Act stuff, and you are probably wrong about some interpretations of it even in US, but that doesn't mean you get to be a global supreme court judge.
Ukraine's reliance on the US means that yes, the US gets say. Or the US can just abandon Ukraine.
 
Here is article, from Ukraine as they seem to be the only ones going into everything he did, about him from 2023.
He'll, it tells exactly what he did


Huh, apperently he even tried to do American journalists in Ukraine to the Russians

What could they have done?
The people he supported ended the power to where he was, and the hospital was unlikely to be able to get him to a new one.
The lives lost due to power outages at hospitals is unknown.
That comes from ...the Ukraine gov. A government that somehow wants to win on someone else money while those who give it are becoming increasingly poor. A government that is trying to conscript every-able-bodied male into its armed forces through coercion by considering to close their bank accounts ?

 

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