Why did so many modern evils originate in the Western Europe?

.Popes was french King puppets for a time - but Church was not part of french state,so when normal popes come,it becomed independent again.
Not so for protestants - they were and are part of state,that is why lesbian pastors bless sodomites in Sweden now.
Only a fraction of Protestant Churches are State Churches. The largest Protestant sect, Pentecostalism, is twice the size of the nearest actual State Protestant Church (Anglicanism), and there are many other Protestant sects that are of similar size to Anglicanism that are not state Churches, including Baptists, Methodists, and non-denomination Protestants, to name a few. Based on the actual numbers the majority of Protestant Churches are non-State Churches. I would also note that the largest sects of Protestantism also tend to be the most socially conservative ones, while those that embrace modernism have continually shrank in population and attendance. So sure, one state Protestant church in a highly progressive and secular European country blesses same-sex marriages, that doesn't mean that all Protestant Churches can or will follow the same path, nor does it mean the Catholic Church won't bend that way either, given the trajectory the current Pope is on.

Perhaps because you are Catholic you don't grok something critical about Protestantism: it is highly diversified and not at all centralized. There's not any kind of central authority or ideology guiding all Protestant Churches, thus what some random Protestant Church does or does not do is in no way reflectively of Protestantism as a whole, and painting with a broad brush as you tend to do doesn't actually convince anyone who understands even the basics of how Protestant churches have developed over time.

2.Catholics Brazil ruled by masons,who exiled their royals where they free slaves.
What does that have to do with my point? You claimed that Protestants only got rid of slavery when it became non-lucrative and implied that Catholics banned it earlier. Now faced with actual facts and history you're pulling a No True Scotsman.

3.Catholic germany which do not allowed Inquisition do their job,just like in Poland.And even then,majority of victims were still in protestans countries.
What I linked in no way showed that. It indicated that 1/3rd of those executed for witchcraft were in a SINGLE CATHOLIC REGION, it didn't indicate which side did it more or less. In fact who persecuted more witches is an area of scholarly dispute and things varied wildly by region. Long story short, pinning this one exclusively on Protestants is ahistorical.

4.Mao destroyed chineese Culture,and use marxism for that.Which was created in Europe.Even worst chineese emperors would never ever made crie like that - becouse they acted accordingly to chineese culture.
. . . You've never studied much of Chinese history, have you?

Chinese Emperors committed all sorts of atrocities to take and keep power, and the Chinese even had an entire philosophical tradition built up that justified that kind of use of power called Legalism. While yes, much of what Mao did in the Cultural Revolution was against Confucian ideals, it fell right into line with traditional Legalism, and it was that Philosophical tradition that informed and influenced Mao's Marxism. Maoism, it should be noted, is considered a distinct school of Marxism that originated with Mao and influenced the CCP, and, as I noted, the CCP has since been spreading its ideals.

Ideas cannot purely be placed on one society and culture. One could easily claim that Marxism wouldn't exist without Christian thought, for instance, and Christian theology and Philosophy originated in the Middle East as an offshoot of Judaism. Does that mean that Marxism is Middle Eastern? No, and likewise Maoism is not European even though it drew from ideas originally formulated in Europe.

5Exactly,it was islamic idea - but older then 18th century.Dude made it look new,but all his ideas was as old as machomet.
With that we're back to the idea that Protestantism is not a modern idea. Which is it, are both Wahabism and Protestantism actually ancient ideas just repackaged for modern times, or are both modern reformation movements that justified their ideas by citing old ideas? You can't have it both ways.
 
Only a fraction of Protestant Churches are State Churches. The largest Protestant sect, Pentecostalism, is twice the size of the nearest actual State Protestant Church (Anglicanism), and there are many other Protestant sects that are of similar size to Anglicanism that are not state Churches, including Baptists, Methodists, and non-denomination Protestants, to name a few. Based on the actual numbers the majority of Protestant Churches are non-State Churches. I would also note that the largest sects of Protestantism also tend to be the most socially conservative ones, while those that embrace modernism have continually shrank in population and attendance. So sure, one state Protestant church in a highly progressive and secular European country blesses same-sex marriages, that doesn't mean that all Protestant Churches can or will follow the same path, nor does it mean the Catholic Church won't bend that way either, given the trajectory the current Pope is on.

Perhaps because you are Catholic you don't grok something critical about Protestantism: it is highly diversified and not at all centralized. There's not any kind of central authority or ideology guiding all Protestant Churches, thus what some random Protestant Church does or does not do is in no way reflectively of Protestantism as a whole, and painting with a broad brush as you tend to do doesn't actually convince anyone who understands even the basics of how Protestant churches have developed over time.


What does that have to do with my point? You claimed that Protestants only got rid of slavery when it became non-lucrative and implied that Catholics banned it earlier. Now faced with actual facts and history you're pulling a No True Scotsman.


What I linked in no way showed that. It indicated that 1/3rd of those executed for witchcraft were in a SINGLE CATHOLIC REGION, it didn't indicate which side did it more or less. In fact who persecuted more witches is an area of scholarly dispute and things varied wildly by region. Long story short, pinning this one exclusively on Protestants is ahistorical.


. . . You've never studied much of Chinese history, have you?

Chinese Emperors committed all sorts of atrocities to take and keep power, and the Chinese even had an entire philosophical tradition built up that justified that kind of use of power called Legalism. While yes, much of what Mao did in the Cultural Revolution was against Confucian ideals, it fell right into line with traditional Legalism, and it was that Philosophical tradition that informed and influenced Mao's Marxism. Maoism, it should be noted, is considered a distinct school of Marxism that originated with Mao and influenced the CCP, and, as I noted, the CCP has since been spreading its ideals.

Ideas cannot purely be placed on one society and culture. One could easily claim that Marxism wouldn't exist without Christian thought, for instance, and Christian theology and Philosophy originated in the Middle East as an offshoot of Judaism. Does that mean that Marxism is Middle Eastern? No, and likewise Maoism is not European even though it drew from ideas originally formulated in Europe.


With that we're back to the idea that Protestantism is not a modern idea. Which is it, are both Wahabism and Protestantism actually ancient ideas just repackaged for modern times, or are both modern reformation movements that justified their ideas by citing old ideas? You can't have it both ways.

1.That is how it look now.From 1517 till 1776 we had state religion and others as prosecuted minorities.In Europe it continues till 20th century.
So,it not matter how it look now,but how it looked when Europe started going to hell.

And yes,it was not centralozed - becouse EVERY ruler was mini super pope.Who could do whatever he wanted.

2.Catholics who was actual catholics.Like medieval rulers in Europe - first polish rulers were slavers selling their people to jews,but about 1100 AD it stopped completly and jews must go buy people in Russia.

3.And pinning it on catholics when Inquisition almost never did so is even more ahistorical.

4.Yes,i knew about Legalism and crimes of first Emperor.But,they still were big on ancestor cult - when Mao made sons not only kill their fathers,but sometimes eat them.
Nobody in China would think about sometching like that.It was marxism.

5.Protestantism is new idea.Islam is not.
 
Modernity largely comes from the Enlightenment and the later effects of it, which was mostly focused in Western Europe. So of course most “modern evils” came from Western Europe because most modern anything came from Western Europe. Most of those ideas that came from Western Europe in the past few hundred years were good things - science, reason, due process of law, human rights, technology, and so on.
 
Most of those ideas that came from Western Europe in the past few hundred years were good things - science, reason, due process of law, human rights, technology, and so on.
Rather, the ideas that stayed around were mostly good, because being good ideas is a great way to have people interested in spreading them. Plenty of utterly abandoned ones that simply never made an impact themselves across the years, and plenty of things geniuses came up with who never passed them on like the missed chance at the Fast Fourier Transform over a century before the Limited Test Ban Treaty desperately needed it.
 
Modernity largely comes from the Enlightenment and the later effects of it, which was mostly focused in Western Europe. So of course most “modern evils” came from Western Europe because most modern anything came from Western Europe. Most of those ideas that came from Western Europe in the past few hundred years were good things - science, reason, due process of law, human rights, technology, and so on.


as it is written: "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,"

As carnal beings by nature, it's very easy for us to focus on the evils of the world rather than the goods, the vice rather than the virtue. the weakness rather than the strength. but as you say there have been goods brought from the enlightenment as well. I often forget this and will probably continue to do so more often.
 
When we look at it:
  • Protestantism and its associated religious warfare (30 years war) and witch burnings originated in Germany.

No, Roman Catholicism and it's associated religious warfare - which started in about the 11th century when the bishop of Rome declared himself the universal head of all Christians everywhere, and started war after war against anyone who rejected that bogus claim. The 30 Years War was actually near the tail end of it.

  • While absolute monarchies existed since forever, "modern" absolute monarchy originated in Western Europe and western portion of Central Europe.

Northern European monarchs pushing back against the absolutist claims of the Papacy.

  • French Revolution began in France.

Pushback against the absolutist nature of the French monarchy.
Also, I believe, Divine punishment on the French nation for their betrayal and mass-murder of the Protestant Huguenots.
In the justice of God, those who rejected the Reformation got the Revolution instead.

But apart from that - when one guy who is only a mortal man like anyone else goes all "Everything is all about meeeee! I am the state! Everyone must kiss my feet or else!" the people who reject this are not the ones starting the fight.

  • Communism began with the French Commune and of course, Marx and Engels in Germany.

Marx and following copied a lot from French guys, but "communism" in a general sense goes back a lot further in history, as is the attempt to establish it by revolution.

Remember that guy in one of Shakespeare's plays, whose policy platform sounded disburbingly similar to North Korea?
And in the same scene they murdered somebody for being able to read and write.

  • Social state originated in Germany under Bismarck.
So what is so "special" about the western areas of Europe?

As others have said, it's largely that Western and Northern Europe had more power to export its ideas.
 
No, Roman Catholicism and it's associated religious warfare - which started in about the 11th century when the bishop of Rome declared himself the universal head of all Christians everywhere, and started war after war against anyone who rejected that bogus claim. The 30 Years War was actually near the tail end of it.



Northern European monarchs pushing back against the absolutist claims of the Papacy.



Pushback against the absolutist nature of the French monarchy.
Also, I believe, Divine punishment on the French nation for their betrayal and mass-murder of the Protestant Huguenots.
In the justice of God, those who rejected the Reformation got the Revolution instead.

But apart from that - when one guy who is only a mortal man like anyone else goes all "Everything is all about meeeee! I am the state! Everyone must kiss my feet or else!" the people who reject this are not the ones starting the fight.



Marx and following copied a lot from French guys, but "communism" in a general sense goes back a lot further in history, as is the attempt to establish it by revolution.

Remember that guy in one of Shakespeare's plays, whose policy platform sounded disburbingly similar to North Korea?
And in the same scene they murdered somebody for being able to read and write.



As others have said, it's largely that Western and Northern Europe had more power to export its ideas.

Heck I'll go even further. When God warns isreal about what would happen if they got a king in, Samuel 8 , a lot of the stuff he's prophesied of doing sounds a lot like what Communist regime do.

It's almost as if socialism and communism is early bronze aged pagan barbarian monarchy wrapped in a different label and given modern tech
 
It's almost as if socialism and communism is early bronze aged pagan barbarian monarchy wrapped in a different label and given modern tech
Because it is? Culturally, there is no progress, everything mankind invented a long time ago and it is only technology and the standard of living that makes us move from one cultural thing to another. In fact, a lot of what Woke proposes is not progress, but downright regression. A reversal of the positive effects of the industrial revolution.

Why?
Marx.

You see, when I first heard how the Bolsheviks introduced the original communism and how quickly it led Russia to disaster that they had to 'improve' it I began to wonder why this was the case.

It wasn't until a few years ago, thanks to an elderly gentleman to whom something was wrong about the history of art as it was presented to the world, i.e. why modern art looks like crap and art used to be completely different, that I found out why.

You see, Marx when he was young had already invented communism, in his diaries. They were full of inventions which we know to be untrue but one thing shone through, that humanity in its primitive stage was the best and they were still leaving it to the hell of capitalism.(I am of course heavily abbreviating).

Hence, he came up with communism, which was supposed to be that final stage where people have fun and live as they did in the days of the 'glorious' primitive communities. Unfortunately for the world, Marx realised how unserious this sounded and continues to sound, hence he hid it and then a much older one came up with a much better way to sell it to the people.

Nevertheless, all the time the goal remained one, to blow up the whole world because that was what communism was all about. In destroying the present world and taking it back to the glorious times of the primordial communities, where humanity was the best and so on.

That wonderful paradise that Marx used to talk about? It is life on the level of savage tribes, but in a version straight out of the myth of the noble savage.

Although Communism has mutated, and today it has become Anti-culture, this can be well seen from the works created by "Woke" because they contradict everything that culture has created hence anti-culture, its main objective of reversing the development of humanity to a stage of savagery where people are ruled by their own lusts

Of course the communists will deny this, for they are largely unaware of what their ideology will lead to, what their paradise really is. And the ability of communism to even annihilate a country, as nearly happened to Bolshevik Russia, is not a side effect, it is the goal!

Socialism, on the other hand, is just a severely blunted version of communism which is not capable of destroying a country, but of severely devastating it.
 
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Rather, the ideas that stayed around were mostly good, because being good ideas is a great way to have people interested in spreading them. Plenty of utterly abandoned ones that simply never made an impact themselves across the years, and plenty of things geniuses came up with who never passed them on like the missed chance at the Fast Fourier Transform over a century before the Limited Test Ban Treaty desperately needed it.

Chrystianity,and Jesus made pope Universal head of Christians.If you do not like it,talk to HIM,not us.
Here:

John 21:15-20

Jesus Reinstates Peter
15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”
“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”

16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”
Jesus said, “Feed my sheep. 18 Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” 19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”

P.S If God send revolution to France becouse they do not take deformation,then why God do not punisched protestants for genocide of catholics?
Or,according to your logic,what meet protestant countries now is God punischment.
 
No, Roman Catholicism and it's associated religious warfare - which started in about the 11th century when the bishop of Rome declared himself the universal head of all Christians everywhere, and started war after war against anyone who rejected that bogus claim. The 30 Years War was actually near the tail end of it.

Uh, when did that happen, exactly? Crusades were a direct answer to Muslim expansion, but the first religious war in the West was Byzantine-Persian war of 602 - 628.

Northern European monarchs pushing back against the absolutist claims of the Papacy.

And becoming the same thing they were fighting against in the process.

But apart from that - when one guy who is only a mortal man like anyone else goes all "Everything is all about meeeee! I am the state! Everyone must kiss my feet or else!" the people who reject this are not the ones starting the fight.

OK, so why people aren't pushing against the EU?

I think causes of the Revolution were a bit more complex than that, but yes, absolutism was not a good thing.

Marx and following copied a lot from French guys, but "communism" in a general sense goes back a lot further in history, as is the attempt to establish it by revolution.

Remember that guy in one of Shakespeare's plays, whose policy platform sounded disburbingly similar to North Korea?
And in the same scene they murdered somebody for being able to read and write.

I did read Shakespeare but frankly forgot all of it.
 
Uh, when did that happen, exactly? Crusades were a direct answer to Muslim expansion, but the first religious war in the West was Byzantine-Persian war of 602 - 628.

11th century. The split between Orthodox and Roman Catholic went official in 1054.
Most people when they see the word "Crusades" think of the Normans going to retake the Holy Land, with Richard the Lionheart and so on, establishing the Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, building big forts all over...
But the Papacy also declared Crusades against various peoples in Europe, people who were neither Mohammadan or expansionist, but simply were being Christian without being subject to the Pope.

And becoming the same thing they were fighting against in the process.

Not really. For one thing, there's the nationalist vs internationalist dynamic. And while the Protestant state churches were often just as much "do it our way or we punish you, heretic!" as the papists, they were not the same system of resource extraction to build cathedrals in far-away lands.
Roman Catholicism had become so blatantly about extorting money out of everyone, that it took a long while for the new systems to become anywhere near as bad.

OK, so why people aren't pushing against the EU?

They should be.

I think causes of the Revolution were a bit more complex than that, but yes, absolutism was not a good thing.

The feudal system in France had very much outlived its day. The Bourbon king living in massive luxury was the image that the common man saw though.

I did read Shakespeare but frankly forgot all of it.

 
Although Communism has mutated, and today it has become Anti-culture, this can be well seen from the works created by "Woke" because they contradict everything that culture has created hence anti-culture, its main objective of reversing the development of humanity to a stage of savagery where people are ruled by their own lusts
Yet another poisoned fruit of Rousseau's 'Good Savage' myth.
 
11th century. The split between Orthodox and Roman Catholic went official in 1054.
Most people when they see the word "Crusades" think of the Normans going to retake the Holy Land, with Richard the Lionheart and so on, establishing the Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, building big forts all over...
But the Papacy also declared Crusades against various peoples in Europe, people who were neither Mohammadan or expansionist, but simply were being Christian without being subject to the Pope.



Not really. For one thing, there's the nationalist vs internationalist dynamic. And while the Protestant state churches were often just as much "do it our way or we punish you, heretic!" as the papists, they were not the same system of resource extraction to build cathedrals in far-away lands.
Roman Catholicism had become so blatantly about extorting money out of everyone, that it took a long while for the new systems to become anywhere near as bad.



They should be.



The feudal system in France had very much outlived its day. The Bourbon king living in massive luxury was the image that the common man saw though.




1.Also crusades against cathars,dudes who hated world so perfect made money on wool,when poor could fuck whoever they wonted and work making wool 365 days per year.
When bad,bad papist gave them averagely 120 days free.But teached morality.

To be honest,cathars were as modern elites - making moneys on poor,but letting them fuck everything.

2.No,protestant were worst.Popes MUST respect teaching of Church and Dogmats.Protestant rulers could declare whatever they wanted.
That is why leftist ruling Sweden could made lesbian bishops blessing sodomites.

And,in bad papist countries,church helped poor people.When protestants send them to prisons.

3.We finally Agree on something.

4.Massive luxury was not problem.Problem was doing nothing when England and Filip Egalite agents ,and letting them start revolution.If King hanged them in 1785,masses would do nothing.
Becouse History do not knew even one casse of succesful revolution lead by masses - there are always elites doing that.
Kill few rich dudes,and masses would do notching.
Or riot and get massacred - like those poor catholics peasants who fought protestants in England/1549/ and Sweden/1552/ they all lost -becouse there was no rich dudes supporting them.

5.Thanks,but in case of killing lawyers,dude could have a point ;)
 
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Heck I'll go even further. When God warns isreal about what would happen if they got a king in, Samuel 8 , a lot of the stuff he's prophesied of doing sounds a lot like what Communist regime do.

It's almost as if socialism and communism is early bronze aged pagan barbarian monarchy wrapped in a different label and given modern tech
They believed that the taxes and bureaucracy and endemic corruption were all worth the novelty of having a man on a fancy chair. It was the popular thing in neighboring nations, a novelty that was worth dispensing of their traditions for...it was the progressive thing. Saul was handpicked by God Himself as the ideal figurehead for Israel, a real aristocrat, and he was rightly horrified that he was put into such a position. The burden of leadership deranged him into someone that would massacre priests to end a civil war. Don't act like his successors were any better. David? Murderer. S*l*m*n? Divine wisdom couldn't keep him from becoming an idolater. And so on, so forth, until globalist puppet king Herod tried to kill Jesus for taking spiritual authority over Israel and Judas betrayed him for refusing to take political authority.
The Bible does not endorse monarchy, the puppet religions created by the molochim of the Roman, English, and Russian empires do.
 
They believed that the taxes and bureaucracy and endemic corruption were all worth the novelty of having a man on a fancy chair. It was the popular thing in neighboring nations, a novelty that was worth dispensing of their traditions for...it was the progressive thing. Saul was handpicked by God Himself as the ideal figurehead for Israel, a real aristocrat, and he was rightly horrified that he was put into such a position. The burden of leadership deranged him into someone that would massacre priests to end a civil war. Don't act like his successors were any better. David? Murderer. S*l*m*n? Divine wisdom couldn't keep him from becoming an idolater. And so on, so forth, until globalist puppet king Herod tried to kill Jesus for taking spiritual authority over Israel and Judas betrayed him for refusing to take political authority.
The Bible does not endorse monarchy, the puppet religions created by the molochim of the Roman, English, and Russian empires do.

Amen!
 
The Bible does not endorse monarchy, the puppet religions created by the molochim of the Roman, English, and Russian empires do.

God gave Israel over to monarchy when they demanded it.
There's an old English saying: "Every king comes from God. So does every plague."
 
God gave Israel over to monarchy when they demanded it.
There's an old English saying: "Every king comes from God. So does every plague."

But was it given as a blessing aand endorsement of Isreal's wishes or to serve as a warning for those that would come after? Sometimes the only way to learn not to play with fire is to get burned by one.
 
They believed that the taxes and bureaucracy and endemic corruption were all worth the novelty of having a man on a fancy chair. It was the popular thing in neighboring nations, a novelty that was worth dispensing of their traditions for...it was the progressive thing. Saul was handpicked by God Himself as the ideal figurehead for Israel, a real aristocrat, and he was rightly horrified that he was put into such a position. The burden of leadership deranged him into someone that would massacre priests to end a civil war. Don't act like his successors were any better. David? Murderer. S*l*m*n? Divine wisdom couldn't keep him from becoming an idolater. And so on, so forth, until globalist puppet king Herod tried to kill Jesus for taking spiritual authority over Israel and Judas betrayed him for refusing to take political authority.
The Bible does not endorse monarchy, the puppet religions created by the molochim of the Roman, English, and Russian empires do.
All true.But,they still were better then current elites.
 
All true.But,they still were better then current elites.
I'm skipping over the generations where they descended into full baby-burning, child-molesting, cackling paganism. There's a reason why archeologists are able to maintain the meme that Our God was of totally polytheistic origins.
 
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I'm skipping over the generations where they descended into full baby-burning, niece-screwing, cackling paganism. There's a reason why archeologists are able to maintain the meme that Our God was of totally polytheistic origins.
Then,HE is not God at all.And marxists are right about people making gods.
But,back to topic - we had Chrystianitas with catholics rulers once,and free people.Then Deformation happened,which made religion part of state.
Then french revolution happened,which negate Jesus.Then soviet revolution happened,which negate God.
Then 1968 happened,which negate family.
And now we have lgbt revolution,which negate persons.

But,at least,we knew that Chrystianitas existed once - so it could exist again.
 

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