General military questions thread

Which cases were there when a country became extremely strong as a result of it being pushed to its limits? I can think of the World War II Soviet Union and present-day Ukraine, but which additional examples of this are there? Perhaps Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War, but what else?
 
WolfBear said:
Which cases were there when a country became extremely strong as a result of it being pushed to its limits? I can think of the World War II Soviet Union and present-day Ukraine, but which additional examples of this are there? Perhaps Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War, but what else?
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The US during the Civil War. England during the Anglo-Dutch wars. Rome during the Punic Wars against Carthage.
 
bintananth said:
The US during the Civil War. England during the Anglo-Dutch wars. Rome during the Punic Wars against Carthage.
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The US during the Civil War was not pushed to the limit that badly. It did keep most of its population, railroads, and industrial areas, after all.
 
bintananth said:
Um, the Civil War killed more Americans than every other war the US has participated in combined up until sometime during Vietnam (low casualty estimate) or ever (high casualty estimate).
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But the US's existence was not threatened as a result of the Civil War. Even in the worst-case scenario, the US was simply going to lose its most backward and bigoted territories.
 
WolfBear said:
I have just watched this movie earlier today:


It shows just how horrific conditions were in World War I, especially on the Western Front. It really is surprising and quite shocking and amazing (in a very bad and sad way) that Hitler was able to get Germans to do this a second time just a generation's worth of time after this occurred the first time around. :(
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Pretty sure that if the US lost a war the way Germany did then someone like Hitler (Who had amazing oratory skill) could easily rise to power and Americans would be foaming at the mouth for revenge too most likely.
 
Carrot of Truth said:
Pretty sure that if the US lost a war the way Germany did then someone like Hitler (Who had amazing oratory skill) could easily rise to power and Americans would be foaming at the mouth for revenge too most likely.
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The US did lose a couple of wars: Vietnam and Afghanistan. But they weren't vital wars like WWI was for Germany.
 
WolfBear said:
I have just watched this movie earlier today:


It shows just how horrific conditions were in World War I, especially on the Western Front. It really is surprising and quite shocking and amazing (in a very bad and sad way) that Hitler was able to get Germans to do this a second time just a generation's worth of time after this occurred the first time around. :(
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It is not really shocking when you know what was going on.

First, Germany was collapsing. Nazis were socialists, and they did what socialists do the best - run the economy into the ground. Hitler's "economic miracle" was unsustainable, and to survive, Germany had to either abandon socialism, or expand. Which then brings us to the whole Lebensraum question.
Second, there was a threat of Communism - and unlike what Lefties want you to believe, it was absolutely real. Nobody sane wanted a Communist revolution, and Commies had made an attempt in 1919., in Germany, Austria and Hungary alike.
Third, there was a whole "stabbed in the back" myth. No Entente troops ever reached Berlin, allowing people to delude themselves that Germany might have been able to win the war even in 1918., if not for the "betrayal".

So yeah...
 
WolfBear said:
The US did lose a couple of wars: Vietnam and Afghanistan. But they weren't vital wars like WWI was for Germany.
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More importantly, they were wars on the other side of the planet, that the USA could decide to give up on, and simply pack up and leave.
That is not at all equivalent to losing a war with a peer power next door, who then demands territorial concessions as a condition of peace.
 
Aldarion said:
It is not really shocking when you know what was going on.

First, Germany was collapsing. Nazis were socialists, and they did what socialists do the best - run the economy into the ground. Hitler's "economic miracle" was unsustainable, and to survive, Germany had to either abandon socialism, or expand. Which then brings us to the whole Lebensraum question.
Second, there was a threat of Communism - and unlike what Lefties want you to believe, it was absolutely real. Nobody sane wanted a Communist revolution, and Commies had made an attempt in 1919., in Germany, Austria and Hungary alike.
Third, there was a whole "stabbed in the back" myth. No Entente troops ever reached Berlin, allowing people to delude themselves that Germany might have been able to win the war even in 1918., if not for the "betrayal".

So yeah...
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I once read,that Germany would collapse becouse of economic after 1944,forget source as usual.
That is why they plan war in 1942,when Luftwaffe would get new planes/Me210,He177,Fw190,Ju88/ and would be 10.000 strong/in first line/
Army would get new tanks,and fleet battleships and carriers.

Pity,that it not happened.I would love to see how France from 1942 would fight./Poland would lost,just like in OTL/

2.Communism was always worst evil - germans,at least,do not made children of their victims learn poems about gestapo.
3.Yes,they should fight to 1919 and burn Berlin.Then,germans would not dare do anything.
 
WolfBear said:
The US did lose a couple of wars: Vietnam and Afghanistan. But they weren't vital wars like WWI was for Germany.
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Vietnam, yeah, it was a loss. Though not a military one, just political upheaval home forcing a withdrawal. And even then, South Vietnam has continued for 2 years as long as it was getting military aid. As long... politics.
Afghanistan is dodgier - how can you lose a war when you don't even know what are you trying to win?
 
ATP said:
2.Communism was always worst evil - germans,at least,do not made children of their victims learn poems about gestapo.
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I disagree.
In 1944/45 Poland Stalinism was an IMPROVEMENT over the German occupation.
But as this is a derail, EOT for me.
 
Buba said:
I disagree.
In 1944/45 Poland Stalinism was an IMPROVEMENT over the German occupation.
But as this is a derail, EOT for me.
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communism in polish version was less deadly then in soviets,but still killed people souls - which is worst then killing them.
We survived thanks to Church,russians were not so lucky - they are gone now and replaced with postsoviets.
 
Here's what I was wondering: in the absence of the Ukraine crisis, Russia would eventually get those Mistral-class ships that IOTL ultimately went to Egypt. But here's a thing: would a Japanese Hyuga-class helicopter destroyer or a Spanish Juan Carlos I-class ship be better than the Mistral-class ship?
 
TheRomanSlayer said:
Here's what I was wondering: in the absence of the Ukraine crisis, Russia would eventually get those Mistral-class ships that IOTL ultimately went to Egypt. But here's a thing: would a Japanese Hyuga-class helicopter destroyer or a Spanish Juan Carlos I-class ship be better than the Mistral-class ship?
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The Hyuga's have AEGIS radar. The Spanish, French, and Egyptian ships in question do not.
 
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