Bassoe
Well-known member
This leaves the mildly ridiculous option of the election being seventies!Trump (D) vs modern!Trump (R).
ISOT MAGA to the 70s.
- Thread starter Agent23
- Start date
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Well, Blue Trump's not old enough to run yet, since he'd only be turning twenty-four that year.
Oddly, the US gets suddenly a lot more liberal vs. the 1970s, but no where near all the way. Racism is dead, 100%. Gays, who just started their protests en masse in 1969, suddenly have a ton of relatively hugely accepting people, in redneck places, but at the same time, the gays from uptime look at them like "WTF? why are you so degenerate, stop." It stops the AIDS epidemic easily.
The big thing is that everyone is going to be pissed about is the 'coming' Roe v Wade case, and the need to stop it ASAP. Also, gun rights is huge in MAGA country, while not a 1970s republican thing.
A big question is what do they do about reallocation of House seats? The census just happened, so it could be 10 years before seats are reallocated.
Temporary poverty is also fairly large, as a large number of people just lost their life savings, as it was stored in computers. This might get solved, might not.
An important thing to do is figure out which important figures are suddenly lost forever, as a side thing, both ones from the 1970s from the 2020.
Also, most important: with military bases, we suddenly invaded the USSR. That's a big fucking problem. If it doesn't trigger war, it does mean the USSR gets a ton of advanced tech too, so no ROFL stomp.
The big thing is that everyone is going to be pissed about is the 'coming' Roe v Wade case, and the need to stop it ASAP. Also, gun rights is huge in MAGA country, while not a 1970s republican thing.
A big question is what do they do about reallocation of House seats? The census just happened, so it could be 10 years before seats are reallocated.
Temporary poverty is also fairly large, as a large number of people just lost their life savings, as it was stored in computers. This might get solved, might not.
An important thing to do is figure out which important figures are suddenly lost forever, as a side thing, both ones from the 1970s from the 2020.
Also, most important: with military bases, we suddenly invaded the USSR. That's a big fucking problem. If it doesn't trigger war, it does mean the USSR gets a ton of advanced tech too, so no ROFL stomp.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Socially, without a doubt. However, 1970 is still a decade before Reagan came along and moved the Republicans to the right economically, or is that shift overstated? For one, I believe there were still a bunch of tax loopholes and deductions that existed back then that were reduced under his administration, though given how complicated the US Tax Code still is, I'm not sure how successful they were on that front.
Not a gun guy by any stretch, but I was under the impression guns weren't nearly as much of an issue back then? I recall some vague derisions of "Seventies-style" gun control discussed by pro-gun people online, but no specific legislation. (Although, this is also before the 1986 ban on selling new machine guns to civilians, so whether or not a critical mass of people will want to prevent that also, I don't know.)
Yeah, I was just talking socially. Honestly, the US was more free economically then than now.Socially, without a doubt. However, 1970 is still a decade before Reagan came along and moved the Republicans to the right economically, or is that shift overstated? For one, I believe there were still a bunch of tax loopholes and deductions that existed back then that were reduced under his administration, though given how complicated the US Tax Code still is, I'm not sure how successful they were on that front.
They weren't. That allowed them to get restricted without much opposition. More importantly, I blame Reagan. He started it in California for explicitly racist reasons. So hopefully he's stopped this time.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Less regulations in the Federal Register, I'm guessing?
Interesting, I don't suppose you have any specific legislation he signed into law as governor? In any case, I think he'll be someone who's widely searched for in the chaos, given how millions of people have been displaced both into 1970 and... well, somewhere else entirely, much to the shock and grief of many.
Yes, specifically the Mulford Act. Specifically to retaliate against the Black Panthers, who were wearing guns to protest. He sounds just like a gun grabber when he talks about it to:Interesting, I don't suppose you have any specific legislation he signed into law as governor? In any case, I think he'll be someone who's widely searched for in the chaos, given how millions of people have been displaced both into 1970 and... well, somewhere else entirely, much to the shock and grief of many.
From wikipedia:
So yeah, fuck Reagan. Fortunately, we won't need him, cause there's no way Carter is winning.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Thanks.
Although, do remember that Carter's not president yet, though given his OTL reputation, odds are he never will be ITTL.
(Of course, Nixon's still in hot water himself, and will probably resign within days of the uptimers' arrival. Watergate might not have happened yet, but even then, Dick still had a streak of shenanigans marring his overall political career.)
bintananth
behind a desk
Ike's initial interstate project, authorized by Congress in 1956, wasn't completed until 1992 and we were still building more and adding to it. There were also US Highways (a post WWI project) which included things like the Million Dollar Highway (US 550 in SW Colarado and one of only two paved north-south federal highways in SW Colarado). Parts of it are basically a 2-lane paved ledge cut into the side of a cliff with no shoulder or guardrails.Um,
No, I am pretty sure that a lot of that infrastructure was already put into place by the 70s, you know, Ike's interstate highway project and all that, and a lot of the USA's rail networks were built before WWI.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
I thought that most of the truly insane crap happened in highly liberal areas, like San Francisco, Portland and New York, and that MAGAFAGS would be relatively less degenerate by comparison.
Also, I'd pay money to see Milo and Rubin in a discussion with the likes of Buckley and maybe Rand Paul having a conversation with Ayn Rand about taxes and gubrmint.
IMHO the big winners will be Goldwater conservatives, no idea if paleocons like Buchanan were a thing back then, but he will probably reap benefits from the situation, too.if he is still around.
Do you suppose there would be an exodus of liberal people, minorities and gays into the red states since they would be a lot less racist and a lot more accepting?
They will probably be forced to "merge" the results, from what I understand it would mean disenfranchising a lot of Uptimers otherwise, and that will not go well.
Aren't US local banks and branches forced to keep at least some info on deposits?
A bunch of people might lose some of their investments unless they have physical proof of ownership, and even then stock splits, buybacks and restructurings will be a pain.
On the flip side, though, I think that a lot of Uptime debt just got wiped off the face of the earth, and they would also own physical assets.
If uptime currency is taken at face value, then it would probably be very inflationary.
But are those places big, established and permanent enough to be designated as some form of legal equivalent to county for US electoral purposes?
I know that some military bases in Germany and the Middle East for example are like mini-cities, with their own entertainment, schools and other facilities and with family housing, but I am unaware of such facilities in Eastern Europe or anything held by China at the time.
My point is that the USA was a large, industrialized first world power, the top dog for at least 55 years in 1970 where manufacturing was concerned, so I am pretty sure that much of the road and rail networks that exist today would have existed back then as well.
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Buba
A total creep
Very interesting scenario!
1970
Without going into economic/financial mess that ensues, some first reactions:
US Military becomes an all volunteer force in 1973 - latest. Could happen in '71 even.
Congress is a mess, as DT Reps are likely to have been erased by the Event. IMO a messy, but working solution, if for any "survivors" - both DT and UT - sitting together.
Or a flood of Special Elections for Reps early in '71. Somje may be needed anyway.
And don't get me started on the Senate which is a crazy mix of DT and UT dudes, some States having four and some having none (depending on where they were at the moment of the Event).
I won't touch State level politics with a shit smeared stick ...
Nixon is finished - come '72 he won't be elected dog catcher.
True that DT LA may be missing part of the infrastructure bringing water from the Colorado and other rivers - but it has fewer people.
Interestingly, one of the few US related ISOTs where Montreal is NOT washed away
2020
Well, as the Biden voting areas are replaced with 10K BC land, then Montreal is washed away ...
Losing - very roughly - half the population and 3/4ths of land area? As noted already - the US is fucked, a humanitarian and economic disaster. Several year long worldwide depression ensues, with all countries with export driven economies - hello, China! - dropping through the floor. The USD stops being a reserve currency- need I say more?
1970
Without going into economic/financial mess that ensues, some first reactions:
US should "win", i.e. a Korean situation ensues (loved that comparison!), with no invasion of the South by North. Cambodia saved from genocide.
US Military becomes an all volunteer force in 1973 - latest. Could happen in '71 even.
The reallocation for the '72 elections is based upon 1970 and 2020 censuses, whichever applies to a given area?
Congress is a mess, as DT Reps are likely to have been erased by the Event. IMO a messy, but working solution, if for any "survivors" - both DT and UT - sitting together.
Or a flood of Special Elections for Reps early in '71. Somje may be needed anyway.
And don't get me started on the Senate which is a crazy mix of DT and UT dudes, some States having four and some having none (depending on where they were at the moment of the Event).
I won't touch State level politics with a shit smeared stick ...
IMO this is quite likely - most of 2020 so-called "bigots" would be so-called "libtards" of 1970
Nixon is finished - come '72 he won't be elected dog catcher.
True that DT LA may be missing part of the infrastructure bringing water from the Colorado and other rivers - but it has fewer people.
Interestingly, one of the few US related ISOTs where Montreal is NOT washed away
2020
Well, as the Biden voting areas are replaced with 10K BC land, then Montreal is washed away ...
Losing - very roughly - half the population and 3/4ths of land area? As noted already - the US is fucked, a humanitarian and economic disaster. Several year long worldwide depression ensues, with all countries with export driven economies - hello, China! - dropping through the floor. The USD stops being a reserve currency- need I say more?
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Yes, this basically what I'm saying.
I really don't know about the first stuff. I'm not too worried about uptime currency: it's identifiably different, and there's not endless amounts of hard currency either. They're will probably be a conversion law passed sorta like with the introduction of the Euro, fixing everything.
A fair amount of it will be for economic opportunities. MAGA country will be a lot richer than outside of it. I expect gays to definitely move, while minorities? Eh? Not a lot of movement. This is prior to the collapse/destruction of the black family, they have communities they don't want to leave.
They aren't designated as counties, their votes are attributed to where the person lives when stateside, IIRC. So never mind on that, no international military bases survive, which is a good thing IMO.
Basically this. Yeah, I expect a mess and a half.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
One more thing I am wondering, what about the whole Metuselah/the sky is falling/zero population growth Karen movement that started in the 70s?
Arguably, it is one of the main reasons that there are demographic problems in the west, IMHO.
Would it get hammered since the Uptime USA is clear proof that thier envirodoomer and resourcedoomer bullshit never panned out?
Also, as we are on the resources page, what happens to oil prices?
I do believe that most oil production is in MAGA country, and that coupled with improved automobile manufacturing in IIRC places like Texas should go a long way towards fixing the USA's Arab oil embargo-related problems.
What about Iran?
Would uptimer knowledge and MAGA sentiment force the Shah to resign or implement constitutional monarchy?
Arguably, it is one of the main reasons that there are demographic problems in the west, IMHO.
Would it get hammered since the Uptime USA is clear proof that thier envirodoomer and resourcedoomer bullshit never panned out?
Also, as we are on the resources page, what happens to oil prices?
I do believe that most oil production is in MAGA country, and that coupled with improved automobile manufacturing in IIRC places like Texas should go a long way towards fixing the USA's Arab oil embargo-related problems.
What about Iran?
Would uptimer knowledge and MAGA sentiment force the Shah to resign or implement constitutional monarchy?
Eh, while clearly disproved, it was junk science at the time too. On top of that, it wasn't what had the effect. It was the pill and abortion that did it. The pill will still be there, but abortion? I think that Roe won't happen.
Buba
A total creep
1970
No idea if demographic collapse of rich countries could be averted.
Oil prices? On one hand OPEC learns that it could gouge the West as much as it wanted without being invaded. On the other hand there will be knowledge that if the price goes too high - "We will frack ya to deff! And may the lice of a thousand camels infest your armpits!"
Iran is just one of many, many places where heads will roll, where either crackdowns or reforms are implemented. In some places OTL disasters will be avoided, in others not. And new problems will appear
The Shah might loosen up the regime and the Empire might survive. But just as well there could be a successful Islamic Revolution in 1971 ...
No idea if demographic collapse of rich countries could be averted.
Oil prices? On one hand OPEC learns that it could gouge the West as much as it wanted without being invaded. On the other hand there will be knowledge that if the price goes too high - "We will frack ya to deff! And may the lice of a thousand camels infest your armpits!"
Iran is just one of many, many places where heads will roll, where either crackdowns or reforms are implemented. In some places OTL disasters will be avoided, in others not. And new problems will appear
The Shah might loosen up the regime and the Empire might survive. But just as well there could be a successful Islamic Revolution in 1971 ...
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Dunno, it seems like that garbage is still alive and well in the heads of a few autist boomers and older, like Bill Gates and Jeremy Grantham.
EDIT: To elaborate, whatever shit they morally panicked about and brainwashed you with as a kid you instinctively react to most of your life, IMHO.
Like the massive, emotional response to the green garbage/global warming shit the Millennials have.
Oh, it's definitely alive, but also constantly disproven. The key thing is that it sounds right. That's the thing with most economics: what sounds right isn't, so people's defaults are wrong until they study it.
Also, it doesn't have a huge effect either. Abortion and the pill are the major causes.
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How so? We won't share our own tech with them, after all, and it will take them some time to develop their own tech.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
I suspect he means the US will pull an Afghanistan and leave a few billion in advanced hardware for the USSR to reverse-engineer, in this case exacerbated by the fact that many US bases are deep in 1970s Russian territory with no supply line, way out, or way to get reinforcements unless the US begins an immediate invasion.
They could try destroying these weapons or evacuating these weapons en masse, no? But then again, the US did neither of these things with its Afghan weapons.