Exaclt what it says! Would Russia had been more or less industrialized by the kick off of WW2 had the whites won?
Depends on whether they got loans to rebuild. I'd imagine they wouldn't repudiate the war loans, which is why the USSR got cut off, so they might have a better chance to rehabilitate the country without resorting to extreme measures.
The Poles would always be suspicious of any Russian government. Question is if they could actually work together or if Germany manages to peel off the non-communist Russians and stick with the alliance. If even a less bad Depression happens Germany and Russia could do a lot of bartering. I doubt a White Russia would have many backers in the West as happened with the USSR even if they agreed to service the war loans unless they also agreed to let Wall Street buy up their raw material related industries. There was a reason Wall Street had been financing revolution in Russia since the 1890s.They'd also have an easier time getting allies, though the Poles might still be suspicious of them, especially if the Poles will still have territories that the Russians are going to covet for themselves.
The Poles would always be suspicious of any Russian government. Question is if they could actually work together or if Germany manages to peel off the non-communist Russians and stick with the alliance. If even a less bad Depression happens Germany and Russia could do a lot of bartering. I doubt a White Russia would have many backers in the West as happened with the USSR even if they agreed to service the war loans unless they also agreed to let Wall Street buy up their raw material related industries. There was a reason Wall Street had been financing revolution in Russia since the 1890s.
I can't find good stats online, but IIRC Germany as by far their biggest trade partner IOTL and the 'west' was a minor player in their trade.Wouldn't selling raw materials to the West have provided Russia with a lot of Western money, though?
I can't find good stats online, but IIRC Germany as by far their biggest trade partner IOTL and the 'west' was a minor player in their trade.
Because controlling financial interests mean they gain all the profits. Same deal with the Russian oligarchs after the USSR fell apart and why Putin is so hated by the US, since they lost out on control over the industries of Russia.Then why would the West be so eager to get access to Russia's natural resources when they don't have a shortage of their own?
Because controlling financial interests mean they gain all the profits. Same deal with the Russian oligarchs after the USSR fell apart and why Putin is so hated by the US, since they lost out on control over the industries of Russia.
The Whites could also fall to infighting after they win the war given there was little holding them together other than united hatred of the Bolsheviks.
Exaclt what it says! Would Russia had been more or less industrialized by the kick off of WW2 had the whites won?
No way to tell for sure, but the west got really pissed off when many were shoved out of power, as they were quite western aligned since they funneled money out of the country into various international assets.Were Russian oligarchs really Western puppets as opposed to them simply aiming to enrich themselves, though?
March 8, 1992
Excerpts From Pentagon's Plan: 'Prevent the Re-Emergence of a New Rival'
The Nazis wouldn't have an ideological problem with the basically Fascist Russians. In fact they'd probably ally if Hitler rose to power if they survived the Depression (the only way for Hitler to get into power is the Depression to play out like IOTL).If so, then Russia would be seriously fucked over if the Nazis still seize power in Germany in this TL and eventually still launch Operation Barbarossa.
The Nazis wouldn't have an ideological problem with the basically Fascist Russians. In fact they'd probably ally if Hitler rose to power if they survived the Depression (the only way for Hitler to get into power is the Depression to play out like IOTL).
Again you have to remember that Hitler's concept of Lebensraum was Austria and the Sudetenland coupled with the return of select German majority cities/areas in Poland and Lithuania (Danzig/Memel/a transport corridor for East Prussia to Germany). He just wanted Poland as an ally and confirmed shield against the Soviets. There wasn't actually a plan to invade the USSR before 1940 and that was driven by the food crisis caused by the British blockade as well as Stalin's military build up and hints of invasion plans when complete (basically the same as the 1914 situation and Russian military build up intended to be done in 1917). Without the ideological conflict Germany and Russia actually complement each other economically and could politically too if they shared similar ideas about running their countries. Plus there would be no White exiles in Germany influencing the Nazis to see the Soviets as literal Satan (there was a big influence on the Nazis in the 1920s from those groups).So, the Nazis would simply seek their desired Lebensraum in Poland, et cetera instead? With them aggressively pressuring Poles and Czechs to emigrate en masse in order to make extra room for German settlers?
Again you have to remember that Hitler's concept of Lebensraum was Austria and the Sudetenland coupled with the return of select German majority cities/areas in Poland and Lithuania (Danzig/Memel/a transport corridor for East Prussia to Germany). He just wanted Poland as an ally and confirmed shield against the Soviets. There wasn't actually a plan to invade the USSR before 1940 and that was driven by the food crisis caused by the British blockade as well as Stalin's military build up and hints of invasion plans when complete (basically the same as the 1914 situation and Russian military build up intended to be done in 1917). Without the ideological conflict Germany and Russia actually complement each other economically and could politically too if they shared similar ideas about running their countries. Plus there would be no White exiles in Germany influencing the Nazis to see the Soviets as literal Satan (there was a big influence on the Nazis in the 1920s from those groups).
AFAIK there are also no plans before July 1941 to even Germanize the Polish and Czech lands either and even then it was confined to schemes within the SS upper leadership that were still being worked out. No documentation has been found that shows that General Plan Ost that included full germanization of occupied lands was ever approved other than the 1st scheme to deport a few hundred thousand Poles to make room for ethnic Germans deported from the USSR.
So if they were able to get the White Russians as an ally against Britain after everything up to 1941 remains roughly the same in terms of the war then there is zero reason for Hitler to invade.
Well for starters I'm not sure if you remember, but I don't believe the 2nd book is actually real. For one thing the guy who 'discovered' it believed the fake Hitler diaries were real and when he tried to get it published no one wanted to do it except for a friend who had conveniently just set up a new publishing house.Do you really believe that Hitler outgrew his beliefs in Mein Kampf and his Second Book that Germany's 1914 borders were inadquate for it? Granted, Austria and the Sudetenland are more than Germany's 1914 borders, but still, ...
I've seen it written that he had, but haven't checked out the memoir in question that claims it. But yeah again I'm more of the 'see what people do, not what they say' school and prior to the war actually starting there were any plans discovered that he wanted to invade the USSR and in fact was more scared of the Soviet designs on Central Europe since Soviet intelligence was extremely active in Europe and in cultivating spy networks as well as were rapidly modernizing and had the world's largest army, air force, artillery park, and tank force.I know that you're skeptical of Hitler's 1920s writings and focus more on what he did during his rule, but still, AFAIK, he never actually repudiated what he wrote in his 1920s writings--did he? Perhaps deemphasized some parts of them during his early rule, though.
Exaclt what it says! Would Russia had been more or less industrialized by the kick off of WW2 had the whites won?