Warhammer 40K WI: The Emperor decides to take Lorgar up on his deification idea.

[Agent23]

First off, I never finished the majority of the Horus Heresy, but Lorgar was actually rather sympathetic and made a pretty convincing case for religion.
(I fully realize that the Black Library writers are a bunch of leftard political hacks, of course, but his arguments for conservationism and religion were quite reasonable.)
So, let us assume that the GEoM decides to give Lorgar's idea regarding his deification a chance, since he finds that faith in him can prevent corruption.
We saw a number of early believers in the Imperial cult managing to stand their ground far more effectively against demons and early plague marines than was the case for regular troops that just followed the Imperial Truth.
How far will he let Lorgar go in the creation of his Imperial cult and how will this impact the Horus Heresy and the events after it?
Will Emps get any type of power up if potentially billions of zealous people worship him and how far will the cult spread?

 

[Skallagrim]

It depends on your interpretation of the setting's metaphysics. This is a universe where the deities are powered -- and in fact created -- by the belief, passions, desires and devotions of mortal minds. If the Emperor, who is already a sort of superbeing (although his exact nature is kept vague, and some things are subject to retcon), actually gets a massive religion devoted to him... well, it's plausible that this actually turns him into a deity. (There is the suggestion that this is something the Emperor might be meant to become anyway, it being hinted that a possible outcome of letting him die is that he'd be re-born as the "Star Child". It's alo suggested that at this point, he'd embody all of human consiousness in the Warp, and would be able to subdue the Chaos Gods.)

Of course, this is 40K, and it is the trope namer of 'grimdark', so it's just as plausible that the Emperor was completely right. Human desires are deeply flawed, so if you base your godhood on that, it's quite possible that you functionally just become a new Chaos God. The Emperor may have sought to curtail religion precisely because he realised that in a universe where gods are actually manifested by the power of belief, a lot of belief can be very dangerous. (See also: Slaanesh.)

In a non-fictional sense, I think that Lorgar represented the sane position. Religion, viewed clinically, is an organising and structuring element within culture and society. In fact, I'd consider it the foremost among such elements, and more fundamental in this regard than the state. A society that tries to throw off religion will almost immediately find a new religion -- even if it doesn't call it that. (For instance, Marxists typically reject religion, and happily ignore that Marxism itself has all the characteristics of a religion.)

The setting being what it is, however, we must consider how narrative logic steers everything. The conclusion is inescapable: the Emperor setting himself up as a deity would end in unimaginable horrors, because the internal logic of the setting doesn't allow for another outcome.

 

[Agent23]

It depends on your interpretation of the setting's metaphysics. This is a universe where the deities are powered -- and in fact created -- by the belief, passions, desires and devotions of mortal minds. If the Emperor, who is already a sort of superbeing (although his exact nature is kept vague, and some things are subject to retcon), actually gets a massive religion devoted to him... well, it's plausible that this actually turns him into a deity. (There is the suggestion that this is something the Emperor might be meant to become anyway, it being hinted that a possible outcome of letting him die is that he'd be re-born as the "Star Child". It's alo suggested that at this point, he'd embody all of human consiousness in the Warp, and would be able to subdue the Chaos Gods.)

Of course, this is 40K, and it is the trope namer of 'grimdark', so it's just as plausible that the Emperor was completely right. Human desires are deeply flawed, so if you base your godhood on that, it's quite possible that you functionally just become a new Chaos God. The Emperor may have sought to curtail religion precisely because he realised that in a universe where gods are actually manifested by the power of belief, a lot of belief can be very dangerous. (See also: Slaanesh.)

In a non-fictional sense, I think that Lorgar represented the sane position. Religion, viewed clinically, is an organising and structuring element within culture and society. In fact, I'd consider it the foremost among such elements, and more fundamental in this regard than the state. A society that tries to throw off religion will almost immediately find a new religion -- even if it doesn't call it that. (For instance, Marxists typically reject religion, and happily ignore that Marxism itself has all the characteristics of a religion.)

The setting being what it is, however, we must consider how narrative logic steers everything. The conclusion is inescapable: the Emperor setting himself up as a deity would end in unimaginable horrors, because the internal logic of the setting doesn't allow for another outcome.

Well, he is already a Warpspawned creature inhabiting a Human body, referred to by Chaos as the Anathema, so maybe if the narrative Lorgar had is tweaked a little and he is deified as the embodiment of the the collective human spirit and/or the progenitor of the tribe kind of god might not that just give him a huge power boost?

 

[Skallagrim]

Well, he is already a Warpspawned creature inhabiting a Human body, referred to by Chaos as the Anathema, so maybe if the narrative Lorgar had is tweaked a little and he is deified as the embodiment of the the collective human spirit and/or the progenitor of the tribe kind of god might not that just give him a huge power boost?

Sure, but "powerful" isn't the same as "good". And the collective human spirit is not magically pure. There's a lot of twisted stuff in there. The setting, quite realistically, depicts power as warping (pun intended!) one's intentions, too. So turning into a deity that embodies the collective human spirit is a risky thing. Al the more so because as that deity, you'll be steering that collecive spirit. Back to the risk of corruption: you are now the single point of failure. If you are corrupted, all humanity is lost. Even f you simply make an honest mistake, the results can be apocalyptic.

So I can understand why the Emperor was so bent on avoiding that scenario.

 

[Agent23]

So I can understand why the Emperor was so bent on avoiding that scenario.

Well, the sick and twisted ones will just default to "worshiping" chaos in such a situation.

And the emperor did become a de fact Warp God inadvertently,and he can still manipulate events to a degree even after all teh damage wrought by Horus.

In this scenario he would have more control because
a) Lorgar not falling.
b) The cult would spread gradually and he and Lorgar could mold the religion so that it Channels power into the Emperor the right way, maybe even create separate cults that worship separate aspects of Emps so as to balance negative influences.
Also, it is not like they need to force everyone into the Imperial Cult, instead they should emphasis stuff like free will and willing self-sacrifice for the good and prosperity of Man.

Basically the GEoM could just reshape himself gradually into something akin to the Aeldari gods.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I mean we've seen the creation of at least 2 warp entities in the lore, Slaanesh by the Eldar (oops), and whatever the 'Greater Good' manifested into from the beliefs of the portion of humanity the Tau converted.

So...the Emps becomine a Greater Warp being when he dies is just in the cards at this point.

Ironically, if the belief is strong enough...Humanity may already have created the God-Emperor in the Warp. Heck, that could be the Emperor on the Throne needs so many psyker souls. They help him stave off the Warp God Emperor. Now that's just silly.

 

[Bassoe]

The original Emperor's leadership of the Imperium gets couped by a new warpgod spawned from the citizenry's belief in the Emperor-as-a-god.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

The original Emperor's leadership of the Imperium gets couped by a new warpgod spawned from the citizenry's belief in the Emperor-as-a-god.

Maybe the Warp God Emperor suffers from a fatal causal loop. Removal of the Corpse-Emperor On the Throne would cause too much of a dillution in the belief in the Warp God Emperor. So...WGE needs the CEOT to survive in order to have all that wonderful power.