ASOIAF/GOT What If? Mance Rayder and his Wildling army started attacking The Wall earlier than canon?

[CarlManvers2019]

Let’s just say that he somehow managed to mobilize his forces and people to The Wall much faster and did it before canon

How would they deal with the North’s armies given that The Wall doesn’t have the manpower to fight them anywhere except for on The Wall itself

Would Ned be willing to negotiate with Mance? Or see that he can’t trust an Oathbreaker?

And if there is evidence of The Others, what would Ned and the North do?

Would they insist on the hostage taking which doesn’t translate between their cultures?

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Well, I imagine that Ned would be unlikely to take up the Hand of the King job, not as long as the wildlings are massed at the Wall. Depending on how well informed Robert is, the royal escort might arrive at Winterfell with only a minimal number of people there, while everyone capable is off fighting further north. That could cause Robert deciding to take up his hammer again, and join Ned at the Wall.

How it goes from there, I have no idea. Maybe some reckless house will make a play for the throne, they are certainly stupid enough for that.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Wildlings disorganization can be rough though. On the other hand they have giants and mammoths... which helps with the numbers of a hundred thousand people (though apparently not all combatants perhaps). Ned, being the Warden of the North, would have to probably go up there and start slicing some heads so him being Hand of the King would be delayed most assuredly and Robert, as you say Unabrask... would love to take up the Hammer and bonk the heads in of a few of those hundred thousand Wildlings.

Mance Rayder could easily take Castle Black, even before losing a third of their force. The fact after the initial assault he simply said he sent five hundred men a few miles in each direction to climb and come around the other end means that Castle Black would be doomed considering how they almost fell from being attacked on both signs as per the TV series timeline. And the new recruits haven't had the chance to train up or establish rapport like Jon Snow did over the first seasons.

The Northern Army was about 20-30,000 men that they deployed to the South so maybe fighting in the North itself it would actually be larger and with both the King and his small host (including Jaime Lannister and the KIngsguard and other assorted palace people) and a larger Northern Army, they'd probably be able to crush the Wildlings I feel in open battle... or in any of the sieges of nearby major cities unless Mance Rayder is somehow able to use his mammoths/giants more effective then Jon Snow used his one giant in the Battle of the Bastards.

But with such a large host.... a great deal of the unprotected North would be devastated by raiding and the knock on effects from that. Ned Stark might actually be prevented from becoming the Hand because he'll have to deal with all of that, and helping rebuild the Nights Watch after such a grievous campaign.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Wildlings disorganization can be rough though. On the other hand they have giants and mammoths... which helps with the numbers of a hundred thousand people (though apparently not all combatants perhaps). Ned, being the Warden of the North, would have to probably go up there and start slicing some heads so him being Hand of the King would be delayed most assuredly and Robert, as you say Unabrask... would love to take up the Hammer and bonk the heads in of a few of those hundred thousand Wildlings.

Mance Rayder could easily take Castle Black, even before losing a third of their force. The fact after the initial assault he simply said he sent five hundred men a few miles in each direction to climb and come around the other end means that Castle Black would be doomed considering how they almost fell from being attacked on both signs as per the TV series timeline. And the new recruits haven't had the chance to train up or establish rapport like Jon Snow did over the first seasons.

The Northern Army was about 20-30,000 men that they deployed to the South so maybe fighting in the North itself it would actually be larger and with both the King and his small host (including Jaime Lannister and the KIngsguard and other assorted palace people) and a larger Northern Army, they'd probably be able to crush the Wildlings I feel in open battle... or in any of the sieges of nearby major cities unless Mance Rayder is somehow able to use his mammoths/giants more effective then Jon Snow used his one giant in the Battle of the Bastards.

But with such a large host.... a great deal of the unprotected North would be devastated by raiding and the knock on effects from that. Ned Stark might actually be prevented from becoming the Hand because he'll have to deal with all of that, and helping rebuild the Nights Watch after such a grievous campaign.

At times, I think Mance Rayder didn’t really have much of a follow up plan, sure why should the entire North allow in its generations long enemies who have been raiding them since before it was even a united kingdom and even after it bowed to Aegon?

If Ned and the Northern Lords settled it diplomatically, very unlikely, they would make demands to essentially cripple them by maybe seperating them, never allowing them the right to bear even stone or bone weapons, taking the “heirs” away to be “fostered”

Though maybe Mance decided that moving the entire Wildling army and then maybe eventually scattering to be a near eternal menace like the Mountain Clans of The Vale would have worked

 

[Husky_Khan]

Scattering is definitely a possibility. There are a lot of butterflies to deal with though especially in regards to Eddard potentially never becoming the Kings Hand and touching off Petyr Baelishs conspiracy.

Even if King Robb survives because of it there will still be the inevitable threats of Daenerys and of course the far more serious threat of the White Walkers inevitably. These distractions plus whatever civil strife does occur in the Seven Kingdoms itself will be almost guaranteed to distract the North and probably help the Wildlings a lot in surviving in some form in the North, especially when they'll inevitably have to join forces to confront the White Walkers. That could add a fair bit if legitimacy to the Wildlings if after its all done they wanna remain South of the Wall.

Which of course only matters if they do stop the Long Night.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Scattering is definitely a possibility. There are a lot of butterflies to deal with though especially in regards to Eddard potentially never becoming the Kings Hand and touching off Petyr Baelishs conspiracy.

Even if King Robb survives because of it there will still be the inevitable threats of Daenerys and of course the far more serious threat of the White Walkers inevitably. These distractions plus whatever civil strife does occur in the Seven Kingdoms itself will be almost guaranteed to distract the North and probably help the Wildlings a lot in surviving in some form in the North, especially when they'll inevitably have to join forces to confront the White Walkers. That could add a fair bit if legitimacy to the Wildlings if after its all done they wanna remain South of the Wall.

Which of course only matters if they do stop the Long Night.

Scattering, with a question of just how scattered, even a single wildling tribe can essentially go bandit and the Smallfolk end up being victims of allowing them through

The Northern Lords could have guys going: The Others are a myth, sure The Others exist but we need to deal with THIS war first, How are we going to deal with all these non-farmers and tax evaders?, that Wildling kidnapped by daughter!!! etc

And speaking of remaining South, man D&D expect me to believe that they would rather stay Beyond-The-Wall, show version which is mostly just a barren wasteland and barely any animals or plantlife seen

 

[Husky_Khan]

I'm still amazed that the Wildlings lived up there for so long in the first place since the whole realm seems to be in perpetual winter anyways... or at least was from what we had seen in the TV series in general. It's almost more of a wasteland then every location besides 'The Shire' in a Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings movie.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I'm still amazed that the Wildlings lived up there for so long in the first place since the whole realm seems to be in perpetual winter anyways... or at least was from what we had seen in the TV series in general. It's almost more of a wasteland then every location besides 'The Shire' in a Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings movie.

Book Version includes places like the Haunted Forest and Frostfangs, so there’s meat on the land and from near the coasts, eating seals and walruses aren’t something most people are used to doing IRL

I wonder how the Giants are supposedly vegetarians

 

[Deleted member 88]

The wildlings don’t have the technology or discipline to even match northern armies.

Ned probably crushes them. If a battle occurs that is.

The only real chance the wildlings have is to take advantage of the war of the five kings.

A united Westeros with a still alive Robert pretty much destroys them without real issue.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The wildlings don’t have the technology or discipline to even match northern armies.

Ned probably crushes them. If a battle occurs that is.

The only real chance the wildlings have is to take advantage of the war of the five kings.

A united Westeros with a still alive Robert pretty much destroys them without real issue.

I really wonder how things could be solved peacefully

Just so you know, I’ve read some Libertarian SciFi before and one thing that should be noted is that Democracy IS Dangerous

Yes, they’re not a Democracy or a Republic, but I think given how the Wildlings’ numbers were in the hundreds of thousands in the books as I recall....it will be a VERY hard assimilation

Even if the Lords and their Men-At-Arms use military force, they’d essentially have a generations’ long bandit population that harrasses their Smallfolk like the Mountain Clans of The Vale except bigger

Give them The Gift? Even outside of pissing off surrounding Lords and their Smallfolk, they’re NOT farmers by culture, just Hunter-Gatherers-Raiders

 

[Deleted member 88]

Best case scenario is the wildlings settle throughout the north and there is no need for war.

It would be hard to assimilate them, bordering on impossible.

Which is why some sort of battle is probably guaranteed.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Best case scenario is the wildlings settle throughout the north and there is no need for war.

It would be hard to assimilate them, bordering on impossible.

Which is why some sort of battle is probably guaranteed.

Well, I guess if there is one thing they understand, is violence and Social Darwinism

I think the Wildlings keep forgetting that they have a long history of the so-called “weak Kneeler Southerners” routinely murdering them even when they were just using Bronze

As such, the “Southerners” are the “rightful” owners of The North by way of killing for it

 

[Christi]

Well, I imagine that Ned would be unlikely to take up the Hand of the King job, not as long as the wildlings are massed at the Wall. Depending on how well informed Robert is, the royal escort might arrive at Winterfell with only a minimal number of people there, while everyone capable is off fighting further north. That could cause Robert deciding to take up his hammer again, and join Ned at the Wall.

How it goes from there, I have no idea. Maybe some reckless house will make a play for the throne, they are certainly stupid enough for that.

Nobody sane is making a play for the throne with Robert still alive.
Robert has the North, Stormlands, Vale, Westerlands and Riverlands at his back. The North alone could take the Wildings. Hell, Stannis took them with about 5000 men.

Well, I guess if there is one thing they understand, is violence and Social Darwinism

I think the Wildlings keep forgetting that they have a long history of the so-called “weak Kneeler Southerners” routinely murdering them even when they were just using Bronze

As such, the “Southerners” are the “rightful” owners of The North by way of killing for it

The Wildings are assholes. They go around talking about how if a woman doesn’t kill you in your sleep after they were kidnapped. They wanted the raping that resulted.
There are times when I wonder why the hell some King of Winter hasn’t extended his domain beyond the wall and laid the smack down on them because they’re really are a bunch of assholes.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The Wildings are assholes. They go around talking about how if a woman doesn’t can you in your sleep after they were kidnapped. They wanted the raping that resulted.
There are times when I wonder why the hell some King of Winter hasn’t extended his domain beyond the wall and laid the smack down on them because they’re really are q bunch of assholes.

Honestly, I think even a barbarian like Conan The Cimmerian would be disgusted by their pretentious beliefs and righteousness and cowardice to own up that they lost and why amongst other things

Probably logistics, possible problems with even building castles and keeps Beyond-The-Wall

Being harder to farm in probably even colder climates. What farm animals would even be useful there?

And defeating the Night’s Watch’s purpose

Also, too many new Houses for Second/Third/Fourth/Fifth/etc & Bastards sons to deal with.

 

[Deleted member 88]

You could do what the Assyrians did and either move them elsewhere or just exterminate them.

But given the harshness of the conditions beyond the wall, it would probably be a long tiresome campaign and would yeah defeat the purpose of the NW.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

You could do what the Assyrians did and either move them elsewhere or just exterminate them.

But given the harshness of the conditions beyond the wall, it would probably be a long tiresome campaign and would yeah defeat the purpose of the NW.

Plus, aside from the Thenns, I don’t think there are many distinct ethnic groups amongst them.

They maybe an anarchic collection of people with barely any identity or practices aside from the ones that cause Southerners/Northerners trouble and latch onto eachother for survival

Kill most of a group of wildlings and survivors may link up with the survivors of other tribes and make new ones

Remember, they don’t even know the history of the Northerners killing them off again and again