What if American abandoned its European allies and focused its influence over North America, Japan and Australia?

[Scooby Doo]

Let say America after the end of the Cold War America packs up and leaves Europe not giving them any further assistance in Military Aid/Support and uses what would have been for Europe instead to give it to Australia, Japan and Canada/Mexico.

How would the culture shift effect the world and military engagements after the Cold War?

We're assuming here that America will refuse to EVER (So alt reality America from 1991 to 2024 won't change policy ever) provide any military assistance to Europe/NATO only to Japan/Australia and Canada/Mexico. America is willing to be a trading partner with Europe but not sell any weapons/military tech to them

 

[LordsFire]

This is a really bizarre scenario.

1. After the Cold War ends, There is no military threat to Canada or Mexico for them to need military aid.
2. Why wouldn't we sell Europe export military tech? There's good money in that.
3. Where is South Korea in this?
4. Australia has no direct military threats either. Only if China replaces the US as world hegemon will there be real issues, which they were not remotely capable of even attempting in 1991.

 

[Scooby Doo]

This is a really bizarre scenario.

1. After the Cold War ends, There is no military threat to Canada or Mexico for them to need military aid.
2. Why wouldn't we sell Europe export military tech? There's good money in that.
3. Where is South Korea in this?
4. Australia has no direct military threats either. Only if China replaces the US as world hegemon will there be real issues, which they were not remotely capable of even attempting in 1991.

1. True but we're assuming America decides for whatever it wants its influence and Military strength more concentrated in North America than the main timeline.
2. Hypothetically let's say Americans don't trust Europeans with their Military tech and want their new preferred allies to have a tech advantage.
3. Same as in main timeline
4. Assume that America is planning VERY long term in securing strategic islands like Japan and Australia and not giving a f about Europe's security.

 

[LordsFire]

1. True but we're assuming America decides for whatever it wants its influence and Military strength more concentrated in North America than the main timeline.
2. Hypothetically let's say Americans don't trust Europeans with their Military tech and want their new preferred allies to have a tech advantage.
3. Same as in main timeline
4. Assume that America is planning VERY long term in securing strategic islands like Japan and Australia and not giving a f about Europe's security.

1. There is literally nothing for a greater concentration of US military strength to do in North America. What was here already was excess to needs after the Cold War ended. Piling more up accomplishes nothing except making our neighbors think we might be getting territorial ambitions.

2. I don't think you understand just how much we already shared tech and infrastructure with Europe. The Joint Strike Fighter Program, which eventually produced the F-35, IIRC, was already underway. We have no closer allies than the British. If you want a hypothetical where this changes, we're going to need at least *some* kind of reason for the change, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

3. South Korea makes a lot more sense as a concentration of military forces. "Alright, no more need to worry about the USSR, now let's pressure NK until it collapses or surrenders."

4. Europe is most of the rest of the modern world. Japan, NZ, Australia, Taiwan, and SK, comprise pretty much all of the rest, especially in 1991. Those are good places to secure, but abandoning Europe, especially when we were all buddy-buddy with every part of Western Europe because we just won the Cold War together, is a very bizarre move if you have such strategic motives.

 

[Scooby Doo]

1. There is literally nothing for a greater concentration of US military strength to do in North America. What was here already was excess to needs after the Cold War ended. Piling more up accomplishes nothing except making our neighbors think we might be getting territorial ambitions.

2. I don't think you understand just how much we already shared tech and infrastructure with Europe. The Joint Strike Fighter Program, which eventually produced the F-35, IIRC, was already underway. We have no closer allies than the British. If you want a hypothetical where this changes, we're going to need at least *some* kind of reason for the change, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

3. South Korea makes a lot more sense as a concentration of military forces. "Alright, no more need to worry about the USSR, now let's pressure NK until it collapses or surrenders."

4. Europe is most of the rest of the modern world. Japan, NZ, Australia, Taiwan, and SK, comprise pretty much all of the rest, especially in 1991. Those are good places to secure, but abandoning Europe, especially when we were all buddy-buddy with every part of Western Europe because we just won the Cold War together, is a very bizarre move if you have such strategic motives.

Hmm how about then America abandons Europe believing that Russia wasn't a threat anymore or something then focuses on China.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

1 issue...giving stuff to Canada would result in those things going to Britain.

 

[Scooby Doo]

1 issue...giving stuff to Canada would result in those things going to Britain.

That's fine it'll probably be more difficult and lengthy tho

 

[The Whispering Monk]

That's fine it'll probably be more difficult and lengthy tho

Although....that might make sense for the US. Britain is traditionally a counterweight to the "Continental" powers. I could see the US using the UK as a tool to push their goals/security into that sphere of influence even if they aren't as heavily involved.

 

[LordsFire]

Hmm how about then America abandons Europe believing that Russia wasn't a threat anymore or something then focuses on China.

This is more reasonable, but what would be done then isn't an outright abandonment, but instead a massive draw-down in Europe, and shift towards Korea, Japan, maybe getting permission to build bases in Taiwan.

You'd still have bases in Europe, but it'd probably be almost entirely just airbases, with a couple token 'show the flag' ground forces bases. America wouldn't be out of Europe, but everyone in the world would know that it's primarily focused on China now.

 

[ATP]

Hmm how about then America abandons Europe believing that Russia wasn't a threat anymore or something then focuses on China.

Soviet Europe supporting Red China.But,in this scenario i would at least knew how many nails i need to lost before i agree to be enemy of people.

You made USA weaker for nothing,except genociding Poland again.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Soviet Europe supporting Red China.But,in this scenario i would at least knew how many nails i need to lost before i agree to be enemy of people.

You made USA weaker for nothing,except genociding Poland again.

Why would anyone genocide Poland immediately after the US pulls out?

 

[Husky_Khan]

Why would anyone genocide Poland immediately after the US pulls out?

All paths lead to genociding Poland... Again.

 

[LordsFire]

Why would anyone genocide Poland immediately after the US pulls out?

It's ATP logic.

His personal pet subjects creep into basically everything.

 

[ATP]

Why would anyone genocide Poland immediately after the US pulls out?

You want gave up Poland to Moscov.And Putin pet philosopher,Dugin,belive since at least 1998 that all poles who do not agree to be lesser soviets or germans must die.

All paths lead to genociding Poland... Again.

No all paths,only those where Putin is ruling over us.

It's ATP logic.

His personal pet subjects creep into basically everything.

Sorry,but no.I am not Putin pet philosopher,Dugin is.

 

[Poe]

You want gave up Poland to Moscov.And Putin pet philosopher,Dugin,belive since at least 1998 that all poles who do not agree to be lesser soviets or germans must die.

No all paths,only those where Putin is ruling over us.

Sorry,but no.I am not Putin pet philosopher,Dugin is.

Dugin doesn't think anyone should genocide Poland. He does think it should be a Russian vassal state, but that's because from a realist POV Poland will either be dominated by Germany or a Russia (unless it managed to grow by quite a bit) and he's Russian. The only people Dugin outright calls for genocide of is Ukrainians and that's cultural genocide, not murder of them all, because he's one of those Russians who believes them to all be Russians.

 

[ATP]

Dugin doesn't think anyone should genocide Poland. He does think it should be a Russian vassal state, but that's because from a realist POV Poland will either be dominated by Germany or a Russia (unless it managed to grow by quite a bit) and he's Russian. The only people Dugin outright calls for genocide of is Ukrainians and that's cultural genocide, not murder of them all, because he's one of those Russians who believes them to all be Russians.

No,he deny existence of both ukrainians and belorussians.
And his offer for Poland is that we should cease to exist,and become either lesser moscovites,or lesser germans.

Those who want remain poles - Bucha.

And,Poland could be just fine as american carrier in USA,too.Not mention,we could create Międzymorze from states who are in the same situation.

Whem current Germany is colonized by turks,and current kgbstan colonized by muslims and China.They are no iuggernauts from 1939 any more.