Ukraine 1.5.2022 ISOTED to 1922.

[ATP]

With occupied by russian territories,including Crimea.

Now,we have 2 TL:
1.2022 - Russia lost part of army and fleet,but could take soviet Uraine from 1922,and polish part probably,too.No more sanctions,becouse there is no more Ukraine from 2022.
Poland could take polish part of Ujraine from 1922 - or not.
Hungary is happy to reclaim Carphatian region/still occupied by czechoslovakia from 1922,but who would care?/


Peace in Europe - Moscov need years to rebuild army.USA could look at Pacyfic again.

2.1922 - Poland,soviets and Czechoslovakia lost part of territory,Ukraine and russians army are fighting each other - let assume,that Russians do not have nukes there.
Uraine woud win,after hard and long war.
After that - what superpowered Ukraine would do to Europe?

 

[ATP]

More versions of TL 1922 -
1.No nukes for russians - Ukraine rule,BWAHAHAHA.
2.few nukes - after using all them,russian keep status quo.both sides need allies for next war
3.many nukes - Ukraine glowing in night,russian forces "win",find Sralin,crown him and - soviets rule,gulags ewrywhere included USA,BWAHAHAHA.

Which is more interesting for you? or maybe you think about something else? as long as it end with BWAHAHA, it would be good!

 

[WolfBear]

Maybe Ukrainians make a deal with White Russian emigres to support freedom for the Russians in exchange for Russia permanently renouncing all of its territorial claims onto Ukraine? Though Ukraine will be in for one hell of a time since a lot of its weapons and military equipment come from the 2022 West, no?

 

[Atarlost]

More versions of TL 1922 -
1.No nukes for russians - Ukraine rule,BWAHAHAHA.
2.few nukes - after using all them,russian keep status quo.both sides need allies for next war
3.many nukes - Ukraine glowing in night,russian forces "win",find Sralin,crown him and - soviets rule,gulags ewrywhere included USA,BWAHAHAHA.

Which is more interesting for you? or maybe you think about something else? as long as it end with BWAHAHA, it would be good!

In all cases Russian morale is in utter ruin. The key thing to keep in mind is that Russia's army is composed of humans. The soldiers' families are a century away. Their pay and supply lines are also a century away. The charismatic leader they're following is a century away. They're not supposed to be Communists anymore and haven't been since Yeltsin. You've got an army with no nation and no ties and widespread depression with no government capable of supporting or controlling them. It doesn't matter how many nukes they have, they're not going to use them for the glory of someone who won't even be born for thirty years. The ones that don't commit suicide or suicide by alcoholism are going to be looking out for their own safety and comfort first and that isn't served by using nuclear weapons. They might use them as a negotiating ploy with Ukraine to keep some of the occupied territory, but even if Ukraine calls their bluff it's not in their interest to use them as that would make them -- pardon the pun -- radioactive in international politics.

Stalin is not to my understanding well loved. Too many purges. Anyone with a modicum of Russian History knowledge wants very dearly for him to never be in a position of power over them. It's possible some Russian army units may choose to join the Soviet Union, but their price is going to be that Stalin is out and their leader replaces him.

Ukraine is better off. It's ugly, but they're still going to probably wind up in better shape than 1922 Ukraine even after everything that can fall apart does. It can feed itself and all of its people are still there. Or at least their graves.

 

[Buba]

Funny scenario
1922 to to 2022
Amidst the confusion the SSR is annexed by Russia.
As you have the Polish and Czechoslovak parts come along - now THAT is messy
Maybe NATO demands that Russia stops at the Riga Treaty line, and those two rumps are combined into a Halicz Republic?

Moldavia is delighted to seem most of Transnistria overwritten.

2022 to 1922
Even better.
Of course this is disastrous to Ukraine. Economically - I need not explain, and demographically - all the refugees and guest workers abroad are lost. You have a country missing lots of its fecund women and children, not to mention a below replacement level birthrate. A Chinese scale demographic disaster.

I agree with @Atarlost - the Russian troops "give up" - they are incapable of fighting beyond a few days anyway as their supplies run out. I imagine that most - i.e. almost everybody - would end up in ISOTed Ukraine as this is what they are the most familiar with. Demographically positive, as these men would replace the men lost abroad during transition. Some idiots will go to the USSR and be executed (sooner or later) while others join the Foreign Legion and are taught about pre-WWI Russia by all the White Exiles in it

Ukraine is a mess but indeed should pull through. IMO Putin's invasion has done more for sense of Ukrainian national identity and unity in three months than 30 years of previous propaganda.
Ukrainian politics get interesting as the oligarchs lose all assets held abroad. Also, the meddlers like Soros are gone.

Czechoslovakia ended up with Carpathian Ukraine a bit by accident so I don;t think it'd really care. Poland screamns bloody murder at the loss of that territory, mobilises and has its army massacred.
Then it learns to live with the loss ...

Amusingly, once the Ukrainian economy recovers somewhat, Polish citizens - Poles, Jews, Belarus - will flock there for jobs
The Whites I mentioned earlier - maybe Ukraine will call out to them? It needs people ...

Would UKraine go on a liberation of USSR spree? Or at least the Kuban - in large part Ukrainian speaking, or the North Caucasus - oil?
POL will be tight and the first winter will be very cold as there is no gas from Russia.

 

[ATP]

In all cases Russian morale is in utter ruin. The key thing to keep in mind is that Russia's army is composed of humans. The soldiers' families are a century away. Their pay and supply lines are also a century away. The charismatic leader they're following is a century away. They're not supposed to be Communists anymore and haven't been since Yeltsin. You've got an army with no nation and no ties and widespread depression with no government capable of supporting or controlling them. It doesn't matter how many nukes they have, they're not going to use them for the glory of someone who won't even be born for thirty years. The ones that don't commit suicide or suicide by alcoholism are going to be looking out for their own safety and comfort first and that isn't served by using nuclear weapons. They might use them as a negotiating ploy with Ukraine to keep some of the occupied territory, but even if Ukraine calls their bluff it's not in their interest to use them as that would make them -- pardon the pun -- radioactive in international politics.

Stalin is not to my understanding well loved. Too many purges. Anyone with a modicum of Russian History knowledge wants very dearly for him to never be in a position of power over them. It's possible some Russian army units may choose to join the Soviet Union, but their price is going to be that Stalin is out and their leader replaces him.

Ukraine is better off. It's ugly, but they're still going to probably wind up in better shape than 1922 Ukraine even after everything that can fall apart does. It can feed itself and all of its people are still there. Or at least their graves.

You are right - i forget,that soldiers still are humans.They would not use nukes,no matter how much they have.

Funny scenario
1922 to to 2022
Amidst the confusion the SSR is annexed by Russia.
As you have the Polish and Czechoslovak parts come along - now THAT is messy
Maybe NATO demands that Russia stops at the Riga Treaty line, and those two rumps are combined into a Halicz Republic?

Moldavia is delighted to seem most of Transnistria overwritten.

2022 to 1922
Even better.
Of course this is disastrous to Ukraine. Economically - I need not explain, and demographically - all the refugees and guest workers abroad are lost. You have a country missing lots of its fecund women and children, not to mention a below replacement level birthrate. A Chinese scale demographic disaster.

I agree with @Atarlost - the Russian troops "give up" - they are incapable of fighting beyond a few days anyway as their supplies run out. I imagine that most - i.e. almost everybody - would end up in ISOTed Ukraine as this is what they are the most familiar with. Demographically positive, as these men would replace the men lost abroad during transition. Some idiots will go to the USSR and be executed (sooner or later) while others join the Foreign Legion and are taught about pre-WWI Russia by all the White Exiles in it

Ukraine is a mess but indeed should pull through. IMO Putin's invasion has done more for sense of Ukrainian national identity and unity in three months than 30 years of previous propaganda.
Ukrainian politics get interesting as the oligarchs lose all assets held abroad. Also, the meddlers like Soros are gone.

Czechoslovakia ended up with Carpathian Ukraine a bit by accident so I don;t think it'd really care. Poland screamns bloody murder at the loss of that territory, mobilises and has its army massacred.
Then it learns to live with the loss ...

Amusingly, once the Ukrainian economy recovers somewhat, Polish citizens - Poles, Jews, Belarus - will flock there for jobs
The Whites I mentioned earlier - maybe Ukraine will call out to them? It needs people ...

Would UKraine go on a liberation of USSR spree? Or at least the Kuban - in large part Ukrainian speaking, or the North Caucasus - oil?
POL will be tight and the first winter will be very cold as there is no gas from Russia.

Czechoslovakian part from 1922 in 2022 - that would be problem,becouse Czechoslovakia no longer exist.They could join Hungary,Slovakia,Poland - or remain independent.

2022 Ukraine in 1922 - i think,that they must take Caucasus - they need oil.Other than that - they could conqer soviets,or not.
I read some book about soviet spies during 1926 polish putch - they really belived,that Piłsudzki made putch as english puppet to conqer soviets with german and polish army.
I think,that that was bullshit - but,if England really wanted conqer soviets,they could pay Ukraine for it.

Poland - yes,we would probably start war and lost badly.

P.S even better,if it was 1920,not 1922/when Wrangel still hold Crimea/
Could you imagine Putin reaction when he must choose between white and soviets? his troops are waving red flags,after all.