The Big Three Space Science Fiction Franchises Discussion

[Husky_Khan]

Inspired by the classic idea from old Science Fiction/Spacebattles Versus Discussion of 'The Big Three' being Star Wars, Star Trek and Babylon 5 what do you think are the franchises that would be your favorites to discuss, or read about in crossover fics and versus matches in a new Big Three, or maybe to expand it more ranked as a Top Ten list.

I actually think Star Wars would be a shoe for a new Big Three and the top of any list. It was a popular franchise decades ago and still is now. It's still active with lots of media still being published and produced about it, if not actually more content now thanks to Disney over saturation. It's filled with space battles and conflict and thousands of different characters and lore bits and millenia of fictional history across multiple eras and canon continuities and a lot of it is easy to research and look up either in sourcebooks or online. So yeah, Star Wars would be number one.

Star Trek used to be in the top three and it still might be. There's still new media regarding it but a lot of it isn't really lore that Versus/Crossover content creators can really chew on. Star Trek Online is doing work in making Star Trek relevant though. So while I can see it still in the top three potentially, there is another... obvious setting that might slip into the Top Three... or even the Top Two.

Warhammer 40K. Despite having no movies or television series about it, the memes alone leave its impact on nerd and scifi culture. It has a huge setting background with lots of easily accessible lore and discussion on it as well, just as expansive as Star Wars lore is. Plus there's still lots of media being churned out in the form of the tabletop game, novels, and an endless supply of video and computer games.

Babylon 5 was big at the time, but when the television series ended, none of the spinoffs really generated much interest and it basically became a desert for new content and thus even ongoing interest in such a beloved franchise pewtered out. It wouldn't be in any sort of Big Three nowadays.

Stargate is like Babylon 5 media wise but lasted even longer, across multiple television series and a smattering of other content as well. It eventually came to an abrupt end but at a later point of time so its lore and fandom is still fresher in the minds of most people. And a lot of the lore bits and sci-tech is accessible on the internets as well for easy research.

Halo is one of the best selling video game settings period and spawned its own expanded universe of novels and comics. The main difference is that its main medium is video games, as opposed to television series and/or movies. In the Versus community it probably has a larger presence then even Stargate and even things like Star Trek but it's still weird to place it somewhere as though there have always been more fans of the video game series, I dunno how that translates and compares to a versus/crossover fic community in comparison to something like Stargate or Warhammer 40K.

Hinging off of that is Mass Effect which is like Halo but a smaller impact. It was a great self contained story for the most part but didn't spin off nearly as much of an expanded universe that Halo did. Plus it didn't spawn off large numbers of increasingly derivative sequels either. Very sad.

Battletech is the other one I want to mention. Back in the day it was being discussed as a fourth addition to the Big Three with a "Battletech for Big Four" type of campaign amongst nerds. Battletech is still pretty present in nerd culture too. It almost seemed to dry up in visible interest for some time but is kind of experiencing a renaissance thanks to the internet community and the like and new content in the form fo games and novels are still being made. Too bad the current game developers are woke asf but I digress.

There's lots of other settings as well that can be considered like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Gundam, Battlestar Galactica, The Expanse, and much, much more etc.

Soooo for me personally... I guess a Big Three would actually be...

Star Wars, Star Trek and Warhammer 40K. Might not be the most popular per fan or whatever but cultural inertia has to speak for something. In an actual list though... Star Trek is the chanciest member though, it could easily be knocked off but as a property, its name recognition alone is pretty strong.

As for a personal top ten of faves I'd like to consoom and discuss crossover content for...

1. Star Wars
2. Warhammer 40K
3. Stargate
4. Battletech
5. Aliens v. Predator
6. Babylon 5
7. Mass Effect
8. Star Trek
9. X-Com
10. Halo

 

[Scooby Doo]

Imo in terms of big three Sci-Fi's that are more or less still active and in fashion.

Warhammer40k (Still making new games, shows and a movie coming out)
Halo (Still making Novels/Games/DLC's)
Star Wars (Pumping out Shows and Movies like they're going out of style)


No offense to the others like Startrek but they're classics that are kinda dead, they really have one or two failing shows and haven't released a movie in ages, but the other three they're still pumping out content so they would probably be the biggest and most active sci-fi franchises as a whole.

EVERYONE knows Star Wars, almost everyone knows Halo and while not everyone knows 40k they arguably have the most vocal and active fanbase mentioned on this thread.

 

[Skallagrim]

It's interesting how some things have lasted, and others have just faded out (almost) completely. An addition to that latter category would be Battlestar Galactica, whose re-imagined series was really a phenomenon at its peak, and then just... cratered. Mostly because the writers had no clue where they were taking it.

Of course, we're looking at a certain 'type' of sci fi, here. Something like Doctor Who can also be considered, and that was huge, too. Still going, but it's lost a lot of fans over the years.

Not a contender for 'big three' in the "huge commercial franchise" sense, but Dune, part II is coming out next year, and so we can argue that it's still producing successful content. And on its own terms, Dune is probably the most influential sci-fi novel ever. And frankly... even if you go for the most conservative profit estimate (after deduction of all costs), the Dune (2021) film made more by its lonesome than the entire Mass Effect franchise has made, thus far...

Anyway, if I'm listing franchises that people have actually heard about and that I'm also interested in talking about, it's basically:

-- Star Wars
-- Dune
-- Warhammer 40K

To which we might add:

-- Star Trek
-- Babylon 5
-- The Expanse

(But I don't spend a lot of time talking about those.)

 

[King Arts]

Inspired by the classic idea from old Science Fiction/Spacebattles Versus Discussion of 'The Big Three' being Star Wars, Star Trek and Babylon 5 what do you think are the franchises that would be your favorites to discuss, or read about in crossover fics and versus matches in a new Big Three, or maybe to expand it more ranked as a Top Ten list.

I actually think Star Wars would be a shoe for a new Big Three and the top of any list. It was a popular franchise decades ago and still is now. It's still active with lots of media still being published and produced about it, if not actually more content now thanks to Disney over saturation. It's filled with space battles and conflict and thousands of different characters and lore bits and millenia of fictional history across multiple eras and canon continuities and a lot of it is easy to research and look up either in sourcebooks or online. So yeah, Star Wars would be number one.

Star Trek used to be in the top three and it still might be. There's still new media regarding it but a lot of it isn't really lore that Versus/Crossover content creators can really chew on. Star Trek Online is doing work in making Star Trek relevant though. So while I can see it still in the top three potentially, there is another... obvious setting that might slip into the Top Three... or even the Top Two.

Warhammer 40K. Despite having no movies or television series about it, the memes alone leave its impact on nerd and scifi culture. It has a huge setting background with lots of easily accessible lore and discussion on it as well, just as expansive as Star Wars lore is. Plus there's still lots of media being churned out in the form of the tabletop game, novels, and an endless supply of video and computer games.

Babylon 5 was big at the time, but when the television series ended, none of the spinoffs really generated much interest and it basically became a desert for new content and thus even ongoing interest in such a beloved franchise pewtered out. It wouldn't be in any sort of Big Three nowadays.

Stargate is like Babylon 5 media wise but lasted even longer, across multiple television series and a smattering of other content as well. It eventually came to an abrupt end but at a later point of time so its lore and fandom is still fresher in the minds of most people. And a lot of the lore bits and sci-tech is accessible on the internets as well for easy research.

Halo is one of the best selling video game settings period and spawned its own expanded universe of novels and comics. The main difference is that its main medium is video games, as opposed to television series and/or movies. In the Versus community it probably has a larger presence then even Stargate and even things like Star Trek but it's still weird to place it somewhere as though there have always been more fans of the video game series, I dunno how that translates and compares to a versus/crossover fic community in comparison to something like Stargate or Warhammer 40K.

Hinging off of that is Mass Effect which is like Halo but a smaller impact. It was a great self contained story for the most part but didn't spin off nearly as much of an expanded universe that Halo did. Plus it didn't spawn off large numbers of increasingly derivative sequels either. Very sad.

Battletech is the other one I want to mention. Back in the day it was being discussed as a fourth addition to the Big Three with a "Battletech for Big Four" type of campaign amongst nerds. Battletech is still pretty present in nerd culture too. It almost seemed to dry up in visible interest for some time but is kind of experiencing a renaissance thanks to the internet community and the like and new content in the form fo games and novels are still being made. Too bad the current game developers are woke asf but I digress.

There's lots of other settings as well that can be considered like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Gundam, Battlestar Galactica, The Expanse, and much, much more etc.

Soooo for me personally... I guess a Big Three would actually be...

Star Wars, Star Trek and Warhammer 40K. Might not be the most popular per fan or whatever but cultural inertia has to speak for something. In an actual list though... Star Trek is the chanciest member though, it could easily be knocked off but as a property, its name recognition alone is pretty strong.

As for a personal top ten of faves I'd like to consoom and discuss crossover content for...

1. Star Wars
2. Warhammer 40K
3. Stargate
4. Battletech
5. Stargate
6, Aliens v. Predator
7. Mass Effect
8. Star Trek
9. Babylon 5
10. Halo

I agree with a lot of what you said but I think Halo should take 40ks place it’s both more well known and ironically it does grimdark better.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I agree with a lot of what you said but I think Halo should take 40ks place it’s both more well known and ironically it does grimdark better.

Perhaps but I feel it ran out of narrative steam after the first three games. The following games sold well plus there's novels and whatnot about the prehistory but by and large the Verse was built around the Human-Covenant War and Flood tossed in around game time. And that story was largely told in the original trilogy.

Kind of a similar problem with Mass Effect. There was a Big Bad and now it's over. The prehistory was pretty well fleshed out and ain't nothing going to be more epic then the Reapers.

I feel Mass Effect had more potential. Halo largely fleshed out it's galaxy and the two main powers are Humans and the Covvies, then the humans won so not much left equally epic except prehistory ancient aliens.

Mass Effect had lots of alien polities and stuff going on even post-Reapers and I feel like the entire galaxy wasn't even explored yet. But they did the Andromeda thing instead.

Large scale stories can still be told (reset buttons or setting stagnation aside) in most of these verses, Warhammer 40K included.

Stargate kept it going by going to new galaxies for a while, Wing Commander is kinda like Halo in that respect. It didn't have much after the Kilrathi lost and they went through ancient aliens route.

Also we need someone to resurrect the Freespace IP in a cool manner. And Colony Wars.

Oh another popular space franchise I forgot about more popular then both of those. StarCraft.

 

[King Arts]

Perhaps but I feel it ran out of narrative steam after the first three games. The following games sold well plus there's novels and whatnot about the prehistory but by and large the Verse was built around the Human-Covenant War and Flood tossed in around game time. And that story was largely told in the original trilogy.

Kind of a similar problem with Mass Effect. There was a Big Bad and now it's over. The prehistory was pretty well fleshed out and ain't nothing going to be more epic then the Reapers.

I feel Mass Effect had more potential. Halo largely fleshed out it's galaxy and the two main powers are Humans and the Covvies, then the humans won so not much left equally epic except prehistory ancient aliens.

Mass Effect had lots of alien polities and stuff going on even post-Reapers and I feel like the entire galaxy wasn't even explored yet. But they did the Andromeda thing instead.

Large scale stories can still be told (reset buttons or setting stagnation aside) in most of these verses, Warhammer 40K included.

Stargate kept it going by going to new galaxies for a while, Wing Commander is kinda like Halo in that respect. It didn't have much after the Kilrathi lost and they went through ancient aliens route.

Also we need someone to resurrect the Freespace IP in a cool manner. And Colony Wars.

Oh another popular space franchise I forgot about more popular then both of those. StarCraft.

I mean does 40k have any narrative stream? For like 20 years until Guilinan came back it was stagnation. Also the reason I said Halo did grimdark better is because there is hope the people are like able and there are heroes. UNSC is space America fighting to save humanity from extinction. Whereas in the Imperium it’s space Nazis they are assholes who cares if they die in a last stand few of them are likeable.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I mean does 40k have any narrative stream? For like 20 years until Guilinan came back it was stagnation.

I want to point out I said narrative STEAM not STREAM. I was referencing that there are plenty of stories to tell in Warhammer 40K, thus narrative STEAM, even if the narrative STREAM (assuming narrative stream means the 'main plotline' or whatever) was stagnate for a long period of time.

Warhammer40K is such a big property with a huge cast of characters, factions, worlds, conflicts, aliens and so on you can tell hundreds and thousands of stories in universe, not to mention in crossovers and versus discussions, even when the Universe was stagnate.

Halo is a big universe too but the main plotline was dominated by the Master Chief's and the Human-Covenant War with the Flood thrown in. It's a big galaxy, but there's basically two big factions and a wildcard thrown in. By the time Halo 3 ends the main plotline of the Human-Covenant War has been resolved and the sequels (some of which were well received) are basically throwing ancient aliens into the mix or fighting Covvie Rebels or something which just isn't as strong a narrative as the original trilogy of games.

I feel Warhammer 40K just has more Narrative STEAM in that sense and Halo suffers from something similar to Mass Effect or Half Life or something. There's a narrative STREAM as you say but once it plays out, despite it being a big lore filled universe, there just aren't as many compelling stories to discover, generate, tell or compare IMHO. Pales in comparison to a WH40K or Star Wars IMHO.

Also the reason I said Halo did grimdark better is because there is hope the people are like able and there are heroes. UNSC is space America fighting to save humanity from extinction. Whereas in the Imperium it’s space Nazis they are assholes who cares if they die in a last stand few of them are likeable.

I don't think I disputed your characterizing of Halo as being better grimdark. I disagree with it, but that's your opinion and I'm not going to be so lame as to try and be a wet blanket over what you feel in this case. I also didn't really care because grimdark doesn't really enhance the quality of the setting to me personally on its own.

Do you got a Big Three franchises list?

And/Or a top ten list of your personal faves from this space science fiction genre?

 

[King Arts]

I want to point out I said narrative STEAM not STREAM. I was referencing that there are plenty of stories to tell in Warhammer 40K, thus narrative STEAM, even if the narrative STREAM (assuming narrative stream means the 'main plotline' or whatever) was stagnate for a long period of time.

Stop bullying me! I missed one letter because I did not go over every single word, I'm sorry I made you mad, plz no bully. Hugz instead?lol

Warhammer40K is such a big property with a huge cast of characters, factions, worlds, conflicts, aliens and so on you can tell hundreds and thousands of stories in universe, not to mention in crossovers and versus discussions, even when the Universe was stagnate.

Halo is a big universe too but the main plotline was dominated by the Master Chief's and the Human-Covenant War with the Flood thrown in. It's a big galaxy, but there's basically two big factions and a wildcard thrown in. By the time Halo 3 ends the main plotline of the Human-Covenant War has been resolved and the sequels (some of which were well received) are basically throwing ancient aliens into the mix or fighting Covvie Rebels or something which just isn't as strong a narrative as the original trilogy of games.

I feel Warhammer 40K just has more Narrative STEAM in that sense and Halo suffers from something similar to Mass Effect or Half Life or something. There's a narrative STREAM as you say but once it plays out, despite it being a big lore filled universe, there just aren't as many compelling stories to discover, generate, tell or compare IMHO. Pales in comparison to a WH40K or Star Wars IMHO.

I mean the same applies to Halo no? I mean the books have more than just Master Chief especially if you go through the human covenant war, that's like 20 years of timeline for writing stories about humans fighting aliens.

I will agree with Star Wars because Star wars has many stories it can tell instead of hopeless struggle against stronger powers. Star Wars is a big galay.

I don't think I disputed your characterizing of Halo as being better grimdark. I disagree with it, but that's your opinion and I'm not going to be so lame as to try and be a wet blanket over what you feel in this case. I also didn't really care because grimdark doesn't really enhance the quality of the setting to me personally on its own.

Do you got a Big Three franchises list?

And/Or a top ten list of your personal faves from this space science fiction genre?

Hmm my list going for 10 is hard.
1. Star Wars there is infinite stories you could make(from hopeless truggle against the Empire like Rouge one, to traditional hero stories with the main series. Crime stories with bounty hunters in the outer rim. Hell you could go full fantasy Wuxia and have a story set WAY in the past with the early Jedii order before lightsabers when they had regular swords.
2. Star Trek. I'm not a Trekkie but I acknowledge that it has a big impact.
3. Halo like I've said above there are a few stories you could do Human covenant, post war era with Kilo five, Forerunner saga, etc.
4. StarGate was pretty popular.
5. 40k I like it more than StarGate because Star Gate was too wanky but it's less well known.
6. I'll put Dune here as it's a precursor to lot's of stuff.
7. Foundation pretty much built Sci fi and had many tropes like galactic empire it's basically the LOTR of Sci fi.
8. Battlestar Galactica had a pretty good premise and start but the ending was dumb, and many of the writing was dumb.
9. Legend of the Galactic Heroes the reason it's so far down is because it's not really a franchise because it only tells one story. But I think it could have TONS of great stories. Think about it from Rudolf's rise to power, Arle Heinissen's exodus, to the rebellion against the United Earth Government in Sirius, hell you could even have a harem drama like something from the Ottoman or Qing dramas dealing with one of the mad Emperors like August and Reinhard's ancestor fighting against him. Heck if Dr. Tanaka actually made it to into a franchise it might match or surpass Star Wars.

August II - Gineipaedia, the Legend of Galactic Heroes wiki

gineipaedia.com

Erich II - Gineipaedia, the Legend of Galactic Heroes wiki

gineipaedia.com

Timeline - Gineipaedia, the Legend of Galactic Heroes wiki

gineipaedia.com

10. I'll put Firefly because it was a cult hit, BUT it was canceled and did not go anywhere.

I did not put Babylon five in the list because I never watched it so I don't know too much about it besides a few things like ancient aliens shadows, and Vorlons fighting to influence younger races.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Stop bullying me! I missed one letter because I did not go over every single word, I'm sorry I made you mad, plz no bully. Hugz instead?lol

Oh snap I wasn't even trying to sound confrontational that time lol. I should've added a smiley after the first sentence.

EDIT:

There we go.

 

[Scooby Doo]

The thing with Halo and 40k setting wise.

40k is stagnant the status quo changes VERY slowly, so you often get a lot of repetitive scenarios and the occasional gem of a unique or interesting scenario.

40k is great at repeating what it does so if you don't mind recycled material with a new paint job then it's fine.


Halo on the other hand has its three Sagas, the Saga of the Forerunner and the Saga of the UNSC/Covenant war which hard carries it's popularity but now it's struggling to match the same epic ness that was the UNSC/Covenant war. (The Post Covenant war Saga)

We went from crazy space opera battle to crazy Forerunner to crazy AI back to ??? In Infinite. Essentially the antagonists after Halo 3 switched three times where as in the original trilogy the antagonists were the Covenant with a side of Flood.

 

[King Arts]

Oh snap I wasn't even trying to sound confrontational that time lol. I should've added a smiley after the first sentence.

EDIT:

There we go.

Oh don't worry I have thick skin, that's why I put a smiley to show that I'm not actually sad, or angry.

 

[Him]

2000AD is pretty based and responsible for a lot of innovation, being especially influential on comics-pop culture and pulp-fiction respectfully. With series like Johnny Alpha, Rogue Trooper, ABC Warriors, Dredd, etc.

If I go on I'll be stuck here all day being autistic, but they did publish Diceman aswell, a cyoa interactive comic placing you in the shoes of those self-same characters.

 

[evilchumlee]

I mostly stick to ST and SW.

Trek is my favorite, but Wars is a VERY close second.

Specifically for VS., they are the two I know the most about.

I love Stargate, but it's not great for VS. stuff.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Hmmm...top 3 SciFi Franchises...hmm...

1. Star Wars - spent so much time consuming the media prior to Disney that they can't destroy my love for the franchise. I'll just despise their efforts at destruction.
2. BattleTech - This is really the 2nd franchise I became a part of. Love the fiction, love the game, love all the sourcebooks for the game that are CHOCK-FULL of good fluff/fiction.
3. Babylon 5 - Watched this as it came out and loved it. I think that B5 has THE BEST character development of ANY sci fi serial bar none. The universe is rich, detailed, and open to a huge amount of exploration despite that detail.
4. Warhammer 40K - Been involved it this since the late 90's as well, and it's continually had a great deal of room to play and make your own stuff up for it, OR just be confined to fluff/canon. Still play it along with BattleTech. Still read fiction for it just like BattleTech.
5. Stargate - I really like the characters/team. I also liked that they weren't just given cheat codes to survive apocalypse, though, they did have a fair number of interventions to save their collective bacon.

Star Trek is somewhere after this. I have never been a big fan of their shows, though DS9 was appreciated a bit by me. Though it would still fall behind Farscape and maybe some others.

Well, there you go.

 

[Husky_Khan]

2000AD is pretty based and responsible for a lot of innovation, being especially influential on comics-pop culture and pulp-fiction respectfully. With series like Johnny Alpha, Rogue Trooper, ABC Warriors, Dredd, etc.

If I go on I'll be stuck here all day being autistic, but they did publish Diceman aswell, a cyoa interactive comic placing you in the shoes of those self-same characters.

I remember reading the Apocalypse War and it had all of these little blurbs about the East Megacity Soviets capabilities and Dredds Megacity defenses that I wish there was s technical manual or sourcebook detailing it all. Hypersonic missiles and armored vehicles and advanced defense networks etc. it sounded like a great setting not just for RPG stuff but a full fleshed out setting almost if someone would write down everything and give them stats and values.

I mean Arch briefly covers the War as detailed in the comics with all the cool military tech ever so briefly mentioned. It could've been the foundation fir some tactical game lol.