Story Gaming, Roleplaying, etc.

[Allanon]

Lately I've gone through some websites when I have the time, usually by downloading them and reading over them offline. There was one very unusual and outspoken individual who really despises "storygaming," a phrase I had not heard before.

After reading a number of his blogs I both agreed and disagreed with him because of semantics.

But first, his issue with people who "roleplay," as he called it.

The example he gave involved a new player at his table. Long story short they were planning on sneaking into the hall of the goblin king, set up a really nifty ambush, and take out as many as possible to get some gold and a magic shield. The key words here are "planning" and "ambush."

Anyway, they found the hall deserted, goody! They took positions in the balcony and elsewhere, ready to rain havoc upon the goblins when they were assembled. So far so good. The goblins came in, and...

Then...the new player's character challenged the goblin king from the balcony!

WHA- WHAT THE $#@&?! was the overall and quite understandable reaction from the other players.

"B-But my elf character Sir Goodytwoshoes is a noble and fair elf who would NEVER ambush someone like that?! I was roleplaying! Won't they want to talk first?"

Um...not likely.

The goblins weren't too happy. Duh. You see, earlier games had a number of them killed, along with their dogs, not to mention some pillaging. You don't have to be an experienced DM to know that maybe perhaps the reaction roll should be adjusted just a tiny bit? Even if these were newer characters the goblins didn't recognize so what? You want roleplaying I'll give you roleplaying: after what has been happening those goblins are going to be rather unfriendly with ANY intruders, even if it's just the Avon Lady (ask your parents)!

So instead of a smooth ambush it becomes a dragged out, nasty fight, but all- except, happily, that elf- make it out. Should have read up on encumbrance and plate armor. But now the goblins are really on high alert so trying another ambush isn't going to be easy and who knows what they might do for revenge?

So far I agreed with the blogger who bashed that player, but for different reasons:


1) Roleplaying is what D&D is about- but it has to be logical. (Insert sneering voice) "So Sir Goodytwoshoes the noble elf doesn't like ambushes it's not right la-dee-da-dee-dah. Well, then, if you WERE really roleplaying then...(dramatic pause)...WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING DURING THE PLANNING STAGE?!!!

"That's right, you weren't roleplaying, you were SELECTIVELY roleplaying, doofus! What you were really doing was trying to grab the spotlight for yourself, nothing more, and you ruined it for the other players, which brings us to..."


2) D&D is a group activity. Yes roleplay but also consider the other players. I have a number of characters, some which absolutely are NOT suited for running around with murderhobos, but there are a few- here I hold up the drawing of a human character, neutral, a thief, holding slimsword and with a dark sly ominous smile- who would absolutely LOVE to join you if loot is to be had! So how about I use him instead?
"Ohhh, yes- we like him already!"
Because he would be perfect for the game described above.



Now, as for "storygaming," I think that blogger was confusing it with "script gaming." Script gaming is forcing players to follow a script, something even the 2000 edition of the DM Guide frowns upon, but this works both ways- ensuring nobody dies is just as bad because where is the sense of accomplishment? It's like those cheat codes that let you breeze through a videogame- sure you win but so what? And if you force players to follow a plot then they have no sense of freedom, they are in effect predestined. They know that no matter how well they play if something is destined to happen to them, good or bad, it will happen. Phooey. I agree with that.

But true "storygaming" immerses players in a detailed subcreation as Tolkein called it. Such a world has rules, physics, it's not random so players can REALLY learn and get better, it actually helps the "meta-gaming" that blogger supports. If in World A green dragons are always evil then you know when you see a green dragon you see an evil creature; but if in World B some chromatic dragons (say 5%) are not evil and may even be friendly then of course you must play differently. You can never be a grandmaster in chess if every week they change the rules of the game because experience, like my typing "skills," is worthless. Gygax did this with those three rulebooks from 1977- magic users are weak fighters, clerics cannot use pointed or bladed weapons, fighters have very limited access to magic but are physically tough, orcs are evil and elves good, etc.

And of course without a story what fun is looting and killing? When you do it for a good cause because the evil monsters are ravaging the villages and holding the maidens prisoner, now that is the stuff of heroic fantasy, and both Conan and Sinbad were not above making a profit from the deal either.


What are your views on this? Keep in mind that one-shot dungeons are exempt from storygaming part of course. Kick down the door, grab the loot, kill monsters.

 

[bintananth]

I ST Exalted.

Your PC is squishy and there is no guarantee that your PC will survive the scene once Join Battle gets rolled because an extra with an axe who gets very very lucky can incapacitate any unarmoured Exalt who does not have Ox-Body or Stamina 4+ with one swing.

My players usually prefer to talk it out with the NPCs instead of fighting. The NPCs I present also aren't suicidal because Valor is a stat and a circle of PCs is a "Hazard: Yes" encounter for the NPCs.

I also don't hand out loot because a PC with Resources 5 can afford practically anything they might want which is available for purchase. This includes 1 and 2 dot artifacts.

I also don't give the PCs "session XP". XP awards are based how much time passed in-game. 1 year = 10XP. Most of the games I've ST'd were wrapped up within a season. 2XP, tops: enough to raise an ability from 1 to 2 and that's it.

EDIT: a Solar with a Hand of the Maker (artfact 3), a Protoshinmaic Vortex (artifact 5), and four Lore charms doesn't need the resources background. Reality is their bitch.

That is doable at 0XP with 7BP to spare. The Solar is going to be rolling at least 20 dice (or 10 dice plus 5 succeses) when they blow 40m+2wp on Wyld-Shaping Technique plus an Excellency. Probably 23 dice before the stunt award gets added.

An essence 5 solar with a maxed out mote pool (140) and those artifacts is less than two hours away from about 85-90 WST successes to spend on whatever they want. A 3-dot artifact only costs 30.

 

[Allanon]

Uh...okay.

Bing "old-school" I did not understand half of what you wrote.

In my games I expect logic. In my homebrew game involving a D&D-type world but with no magic some of the species are small and weak. Picayunafolk are small squirrel-fox creatures. They are quick and excellent climbers but in melee combat they are at a terrible disadvantage. So- what would YOU do if you were one of them?

Answer: Hit and run. Keep your distance so get good with arrows, crossbows, chlorine gas globes, flash bags, etc. Use terrain where those big dumb orgres and hill giants (on that world seven feet tall) will have trouble moving about, like with underbrush, close-together trees, etc. Set up booby traps and lure enemies into them. Get good at deception, their "illusionists" are actually good with ultra-low-tech special effects. Know the terrain so well that even in the dark you can move about- Picayunafolk have limited infravision and great night vision too.

Maybe have some ready to fight but OH?! Suddenly they get yanked up into the tree foliage by thin ropes, it was a trick, down comes the net. Pits. Trip cords.

Now, with low-level characters who can be killed in one melee guess what they should do? FIGHT SMART!


There was a really great cafe a few years ago closed down by Covid-19. I was an older player. I do not know many things about the newer AD&D ("DRUIDS with alignments other than 'neutral?'" "Spell-casting KOBOLDS?" "What is a 'tiefling?'") so, because it was a group game and they were young players trying to have fun I just let their characters lead, only taking a more active role in obvious situations- my character was a bronze dragonborn, we were in a place ankle-deep in salt water with benches on the sides and a door where hostiles might pour out so I told the others if that happens hop onto the benches- the DM understood what I was going to do. But otherwise, I just listened and followed others' advice because they knew more.