Is Intrahuman racism still a thing in startrek (in universe)?

[What's the sitch?]

I was watching some DS9 episodes that were replaying and came across the episode "Badda bing-Badda Bang". Apparently Sisko feels very strongly about taking part of a holodeck recreation of 1960 Las Vegas, because that area, at that time was racist to black people. (not sure if this is actually true(Las Vegas is not "the south"). Keep in mind DS9 takes place in 2369-2375. Apparently I am to believe that over 300 years from now, he still experiences or has heard of people experiencing racism to such a degree that he has a chip on his shoulder and feels the need to have this outburst about how a fictional holodeck deck recreation is offensive to black people and he can't just hang out with his friends in their holodeck shenanigans. His wife/girlfriend, Kasidy, tells him to calm down, because they are living in a utopian society and that they only limitations are what they give themselves.

I could have sworn there was another world war and various alien invasions at this point........ Did he just read about ancient racism and get stuck on it? The way some people that are 5+ generations removed at this point still do? Is he actually still personally affected by it in this post scarcity society? Was the counter point from Kasidy, actually the writers, telling black people(or any people looking to blame the far removed past) that the future is what they make of it?

There was even another episode where Sisko hallucinates being a black person in the 50s experience work related racism/discrimination. You can either take this is a "real world" episode teaching us a lesson and not have it as part of "cannon" but if it is a cannon episode then it means that he really experiences racism to such a degree that he imagines such things, that he really is that traumatized by evil, racist federation life.



I remember watching these episodes as a child and did not think too much on them at the time, but re watching them years later, especially in todays political climate got me thinking.



I could imagine there being some intra planetary/colony rivalries but actual human-human racism seems far fetched from what I have seen.

 

[S'task]

No, a core conceit of Trek since TOS has been human intraspecies racism was no longer a thing (it's pretty clearly still a thing for the Vulcans though... seeing how their species is functionally divided along racial lines between the Federation centric Vulcans and the independent Romulans).

However, Sisko had two encounters with the past that made him a bit less idealistic about the past of humanity and kinda awoke him to the distant past of intraspecies racism within humanity.

The first encounter with Earth's past that began his journey was in season three with the two parter "Past Tense", where he encountered early 21st century US class issues and ended up replacing a historical figure. This episode didn't deal with racism in particular, but given the time and place, it likely came up.

However much, MUCH more important to understand Sisko on this topic is the season 6 episode "Far Beyond the Stars" where Sisko has highly vivid dreams (or visions?) of being a black science fiction author in 1950s America in an era of Jim Crow laws and institutional racism. This incident in particular likely brought the topic to the forefront of this mind and gave him a different perspective on the topic than many of his peers. Which then leads Sisko to confronting that changed perspective in the episode you cite, especially as the message of the episode is, functionally, that historic escapist fantasy need not always dwell on the problems of the past.

 

[FriedCFour]

I was watching some DS9 episodes that were replaying and came across the episode "Badda bing-Badda Bang". Apparently Sisko feels very strongly about taking part of a holodeck recreation of 1960 Las Vegas, because that area, at that time was racist to black people. (not sure if this is actually true(Las Vegas is not "the south"). Keep in mind DS9 takes place in 2369-2375. Apparently I am to believe that over 300 years from now, he still experiences or has heard of people experiencing racism to such a degree that he has a chip on his shoulder and feels the need to have this outburst about how a fictional holodeck deck recreation is offensive to black people and he can't just hang out with his friends in their holodeck shenanigans. His wife/girlfriend, Kasidy, tells him to calm down, because they are living in a utopian society and that they only limitations are what they give themselves.

I could have sworn there was another world war and various alien invasions at this point........ Did he just read about ancient racism and get stuck on it? The way some people that are 5+ generations removed at this point still do? Is he actually still personally affected by it in this post scarcity society? Was the counter point from Kasidy, actually the writers, telling black people(or any people looking to blame the far removed past) that the future is what they make of it?

There was even another episode where Sisko hallucinates being a black person in the 50s experience work related racism/discrimination. You can either take this is a "real world" episode teaching us a lesson and not have it as part of "cannon" but if it is a cannon episode then it means that he really experiences racism to such a degree that he imagines such things, that he really is that traumatized by evil, racist federation life.



I remember watching these episodes as a child and did not think too much on them at the time, but re watching them years later, especially in todays political climate got me thinking.



I could imagine there being some intra planetary/colony rivalries but actual human-human racism seems far fetched from what I have seen.

In TOS there was an episode with Abraham Lincoln where he calls Uhura a negro, and then apologizes as it might have been offensive. She doesn’t even realize this could be seen as racist and laughs it off. It’s pretty clear that from TOS racism was basically supposed to be so nonexistent it has no impact and would be just a historical thing.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

I was watching some DS9 episodes that were replaying and came across the episode "Badda bing-Badda Bang". Apparently Sisko feels very strongly about taking part of a holodeck recreation of 1960 Las Vegas, because that area, at that time was racist to black people. (not sure if this is actually true(Las Vegas is not "the south"). Keep in mind DS9 takes place in 2369-2375. Apparently I am to believe that over 300 years from now, he still experiences or has heard of people experiencing racism to such a degree that he has a chip on his shoulder and feels the need to have this outburst about how a fictional holodeck deck recreation is offensive to black people and he can't just hang out with his friends in their holodeck shenanigans. His wife/girlfriend, Kasidy, tells him to calm down, because they are living in a utopian society and that they only limitations are what they give themselves.

I could have sworn there was another world war and various alien invasions at this point........ Did he just read about ancient racism and get stuck on it? The way some people that are 5+ generations removed at this point still do? Is he actually still personally affected by it in this post scarcity society? Was the counter point from Kasidy, actually the writers, telling black people(or any people looking to blame the far removed past) that the future is what they make of it?

There was even another episode where Sisko hallucinates being a black person in the 50s experience work related racism/discrimination. You can either take this is a "real world" episode teaching us a lesson and not have it as part of "cannon" but if it is a cannon episode then it means that he really experiences racism to such a degree that he imagines such things, that he really is that traumatized by evil, racist federation life.



I remember watching these episodes as a child and did not think too much on them at the time, but re watching them years later, especially in todays political climate got me thinking.



I could imagine there being some intra planetary/colony rivalries but actual human-human racism seems far fetched from what I have seen.

It could be something like a cultural grudge, like how some people have emotional reactions to the turmoils of ancient times, the fall of long lost empires, the wars between medieval peoples, etc, but as someone else said it's probably the Dream thing.

 

[AndrewJTalon]

It could be something like a cultural grudge, like how some people have emotional reactions to the turmoils of ancient times, the fall of long lost empires, the wars between medieval peoples, etc, but as someone else said it's probably the Dream thing.

Again, it was just Sisko being influenced by that still. And also Avery Brooks sometimes letting his politics out. But mostly just the influence from the dream.

Anyway, no: In Star Trek there isn't supposed to be intrahuman racism anymore, and it makes sense: A united humanity in a post-scarcity civilization dealing with aliens isn't going to feel those old issues are relevant anymore. Same goes for sexism. So any injection of that stuff in Star Trek Discovery or Picard is based on the idiots writing it.

 

[Deleted member 88]

I think it still exists in the novels, maybe don't quote me on that(not like oppression or anything-just a character using a slur in their POV monologue), but then again Trek Novels have always been hit and miss.

As for Sisko, I think Far Beyond the Stars really made him conscious of his history. So his reaction to the Vegas holodeck is understandable, if a bit overblown, given that its been something like four hundred years since then.

OOU-it came from Avery Brooks wanting to bring it up. Vegas lounge culture in the sixties-does have a cool appeal, but Brooks felt that the discrimination against black people in that time should be brought up, so kids and young adults who were watching in the nineties, would think, "huh, while the singing dancing, fancy clothes and partying is all great they were racist there so it wasn't so fun". In essence, he wanted to make sure it wasn't whitewashed.

Whether you agree with his reasoning is entirely a subjective matter.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Yeah not sure I'd agree with that reasoning... I think Terry Prachett of Discworld fame had a famous quotation about it.

“Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because—what with trolls and dwarfs and so on—speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green.”

A quote from Witches Abroad

Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because—what with trolls and dwarfs and so on—speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfec...

www.goodreads.com

 

[Captain X]

I'm going to have to disagree with Brooks and lament the fact this was shoe-horned into the show the way it was.

 

[Culsu]

It's a bit the same in Shadowrun. While there is still racism with some fringe groups most humans don't give a damn about your skin color because what the fuck is that horned thing over there?!?