How much can people pretend something’s new/unique/revolutionary even if it’s been done many times before?

[CarlManvers2019]

This is something I notice with fandoms based around characters like Deku and Shirou Emiya

People act as if things like their self sacrificing nature and willingness to endure extreme pain are special or unique and even like to keep going “distorted” repeatedly at times

That was my time hanging around said fandoms on SB and FFN

I think the same could be said for deconstructions/reconstructions

Game of Thrones is far from the first Dark/(mostly)Low Fantasy setting with “realistic” stuff like old men marrying 13 year olds and lots of extremely uncontrollable and unstoppable levels of rape, pillage, torture, enslave, burn and murder

Superhero settings can be “dark/edgy/realistic” and that’s without the weird shit of The Boys that turned almost all of em into depraved hollywood celebrities

 

[Bear Ribs]

Frequently the people saying that aren't exaggerating or pretending. It's genuinely new to them and they just haven't read enough to realize their "revolutionary" story is one that's been written so many times before.

I've had people unironically argue that Isekai was a brand-new exciting genre, completely unaware that the concept of a person from our world going to a fantastic one has been a staple of storytelling for centuries ranging from Buck Rogers to John Conner of Mars to Mark Twain writing A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's court to no few ancient folktales. Those people weren't arguing in bad faith, they just hadn't been exposed to the breadth of stories to let them realize that Isekai is just a spin on an old genre.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Frequently the people saying that aren't exaggerating or pretending. It's genuinely new to them and they just haven't read enough to realize their "revolutionary" story is one that's been written so many times before.

I've had people unironically argue that Isekai was a brand-new exciting genre, completely unaware that the concept of a person from our world going to a fantastic one has been a staple of storytelling for centuries ranging from Buck Rogers to John Conner of Mars to Mark Twain writing A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's court to no few ancient folktales. Those people weren't arguing in bad faith, they just hadn't been exposed to the breadth of stories to let them realize that Isekai is just a spin on an old genre.

TBH, guys I’ve talked to who behave like this have also read older works like Bleach and Naruto amongst other older works(though he never read stuff like JoJo)who introduced me to Tokyo Ghoul and Boku No Hero Academia.....I think going by the silence in my last PMs with him he didn’t like how unrealistic and badly written TG’s final arc was, especially specifically how the humans and ghouls ended up working together even if there’s too much bad blood particularly on the latters’ hands and promoting a known rich but sorta redeemed and matured serial killer to an important public position is a bit too much breaking of reality amongst other things

There may also be a slight cultlike obsession, like in the case of Shirou Emiya on that FFN subforum called Mechanics of In Flight, which I used to go around nearly half a decade before

So maybe it’s also them just being really really really serious fans who like to pretend their series is hyper realistic or extremely well written and thought out

 

[gral]

There may also be a slight cultlike obsession, like in the case of Shirou Emiya on that FFN subforum called Mechanics of In Flight, which I used to go around nearly half a decade before

In Flight is one of the main examples of a fic which fans exhibit cult-like behaviour. I really don't know which one has more obnoxious fans, In Flight or Methods of Rationality.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

In Flight is one of the main examples of a fic which fans exhibit cult-like behaviour. I really don't know which one has more obnoxious fans, In Flight or Methods of Rationality.

That forum kinda transferred to talking about a lot of other stuff, but mostly Shirou Emiya

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Well, Midoriya and Shirou ARE unique characters in their respective genres (shounen anime and Japanese visual novels).

Entertainment is huge. "Shirou isn't unique because XYZ did it first in this other genre" well, I think it's rather unreasonable to think that one must be knowledgeable or consume all genres. If you have invested thousands of hours in reading/watching/playing Shounen stories and VNs, you'd have a pretty good grasp on what stands out in that genre, and probably don't have enough time in - or the interest in reading - old 1930s Robert E. Howard Conan stories or Michael Moorcock Elric stories or whatever, just because they did something similar first.


As for the characters themselves, I'm rather lukewarm on Midoriya. I like MHA as a whole but there are several things I'd change. The story sorta wants to go for this "realistic" treatment of things, but after these brutal life and death adventures, the kids just go back to class and are all fine and happy like before, when they're practically soldiers.

I quite like Shirou's story in UBW.

Spoiler: UBW

Coming face to face with your future self, a person who tried to be a hero and fought for forever, and died, only to apparently barely make a dent in the grand scheme of things, and fall to despair, is a very vivid, memorable picture. And Shirou acknowledges that he probably won't make a dent in the grand scheme of things, but the ACT of being a do-gooder is worth in of itself, so he goes on anyway. It's rather "grimly-heroic".

I'm not fond of HF, as it sorta tramples over the preceding arc, HF.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

@Val the Moofia Boss
Kiritsugu Emiya’s no Superman, not even a Batman.....neither would approve even if they know the dude doesn’t have much of an option but to blow up the plane for one

Deku’s still not too different from those other really self sacrificing to the point of “Dude, you really will die if you don’t stop” sorts

Though even that’s not really so unique, anybody remember Allen Walker for D Gray-Man

Main difference I think is they actually tell him to do stuff like moderate his training or balance his determination with rest and thinking ahead.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Only Shounen Series I know that can be said to remotely have “unique protagonists” are Baki and Kengan Asura

Because their protagonists aren’t on some sort of altruistic motivation as to why they fight

Instead they’re fighting mostly to have fun with the challenge and “prove who is strongest” even if it means extreme injuries

And in the latter’s case, going into fights with Dented Iron that still hasn’t healed and keeps on accumulating, even when told he can be sent to the best hospital and a substitute can take the position and well nothing really truly bad comes from losing