Samuel Jose Souza Silva
Member
What would be the consequences of this TL for the Habsburgs?
how can we make TL that house of Valois-Burgundy inherit the kingdom of France?
- Thread starter Samuel Jose Souza Silva
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Very interesting,i hope that somebody with more knowledge would answer you.Maybe @Skallagrim ?
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
Just surviving (in the male line) long enough for the more senior Valois branches to die off should suffice, assuming this means a Burgundian victory in the Burgundian Wars or no such conflict at all also would allow Burgundy to give the rebel forces in the Mad War a big boost (weakening the main Valois branch ahead of their extinction). Makes some form of Spanish-Austrian alliance even more critical I'd expect, to contain the overwhelming power of this giga-France now including the wealthy Low Countries & large parts of what's now Eastern France that they historically had to spend ~200 years fighting for. Finding some way to acquire perpetual English support will also be important to the hopes of the anti-French alliance. Then again, depending on how the Burgundians survive to inherit France - after all Charles the Bold could've not only lived longer but also had a son with his last wife, Margaret of York - the Valois-Burgundian kings could also have inherited a Yorkist claim on the English throne, and if they can make good on that then it's probably curtains for anyone trying to stand against this new Western European juggernaut.
Thankfully for anyone who doesn't want to speak French such an outcome is far from guaranteed, in fact if Margaret's brother Richard doesn't usurp their nephew Edward, the latter was already betrothed to the future Duchess of Brittany and so a secondary anti-French front is ready to go. And if the butterflies have saved the Yorkist lineage, Elizabeth of York would be a natural bride for Emperor Maximilian, consolidating the Anglo-Breton alliance with the HRE. They just need a son who can marry the Spanish princess Joanna to complete the new anti-French alliance (by putting the Habsburgs in charge of Spain in a different way) & give it a fighting chance against Charles' descendants.
Anyway, speaking of the Low Countries, if an 80YW equivalent still happens then the Dutch are probably going to have an even harder time gaining their independence ITL unless French overlordship somehow proves more flexible & light-handed than that of the Spanish Habsburgs, but I find that very hard to believe since the tendency in France at this time was toward centralism & strengthening royal authority, and Charles the Bold was also trying to centralize government in the Low Countries before his death historically. (Yeah I know I said the Burgundians would certainly help the anti-centralist forces in the Mad War earlier, but when it's their central authority at stake rather than that of their dynastic rivals, I don't doubt they will have a very different attitude toward the nurturing of said central authority.) The Franco-Burgundian kings won't have to use the long & arduous Spanish Road to supply their suppression forces.
Thankfully for anyone who doesn't want to speak French such an outcome is far from guaranteed, in fact if Margaret's brother Richard doesn't usurp their nephew Edward, the latter was already betrothed to the future Duchess of Brittany and so a secondary anti-French front is ready to go. And if the butterflies have saved the Yorkist lineage, Elizabeth of York would be a natural bride for Emperor Maximilian, consolidating the Anglo-Breton alliance with the HRE. They just need a son who can marry the Spanish princess Joanna to complete the new anti-French alliance (by putting the Habsburgs in charge of Spain in a different way) & give it a fighting chance against Charles' descendants.
Anyway, speaking of the Low Countries, if an 80YW equivalent still happens then the Dutch are probably going to have an even harder time gaining their independence ITL unless French overlordship somehow proves more flexible & light-handed than that of the Spanish Habsburgs, but I find that very hard to believe since the tendency in France at this time was toward centralism & strengthening royal authority, and Charles the Bold was also trying to centralize government in the Low Countries before his death historically. (Yeah I know I said the Burgundians would certainly help the anti-centralist forces in the Mad War earlier, but when it's their central authority at stake rather than that of their dynastic rivals, I don't doubt they will have a very different attitude toward the nurturing of said central authority.) The Franco-Burgundian kings won't have to use the long & arduous Spanish Road to supply their suppression forces.
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TheRomanSlayer
American Imperialists are the New Untermenschen
Basically Burgundy gets two crowns for the price of one? I did have a scenario in mind where Richard, the 3rd Duke of York, arranges for his son who IOTL became Edward IV to marry Elizabeth of Nevers, who is distantly related to the Burgundians, in a diplomatic wrangling that saw the cession of Calais to Burgundy as a gift, though it would instead lead to a potential dynastic union of England and Burgundy under the Valois-Burgundy-York instead.