ISOT Drakaverse U.S. and Nazi Reich to 1941

History Learner

Well-known member
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So, as the title says, the Drakaverse United States and Third Reich from their ATL's December 1st, 1941 is ISOTed in place of our own. As the map shows, both are behemoths, with the resources and industry to match it. The United States spans all of continental North America, as well as Cuba, the Philippines, Hawaii, Haiti, and Santo Domingo (OTL Dominican Republic). The population by 1940 is 179,000,000 and thus effectively equal to that of the USSR in OTL 1941. For an idea of what the lead up and early "Eurasian War" (their analogue of WWII) has been like, here is from the official timeline:

1930 -Stock market crisis leads to mild but chronic recession outside Domination. First chain reaction observed. Closed-circuit television.​
1932 -Hitler elected with majority in Germany. F.D. Roosevelt elected President in U.S.; declares "New Deal" for lower classes, Hispanics, etc. Limited recovery.​
1936–37 -Civil war in Spain; defeat of Nationalists by 1937. Soviet Republic of Spain established. Germany takes Austria. French and British abandon Czechoslovakia; Sudeten War follows. Clashes on Draka–Japanese and Draka–Soviet borders. Experiments with electrodetection (radar) in several countries. Domination begins long-term project to harness nuclear energy. Albert Einstein, Enrico Fermi move to U.S.​
1939 -France and Britain guarantee Poland. Eurasian War begins. Nazi–Japanese alliance. Transistor invented in Toronto, State of Ontario. First commercial tape recorder.​
1940 -Fall of France. Battle of Britain ends in stalemate; Nazi submarines effectively close Atlantic. Japanese aggression in Southeast Asia produces severe tension with U.S., Australasian Federation.​
1941 -Domination attacks Italy with tacit consent of Germany. Germany attacks and defeats Soviet Union. Moscow falls October 1; Germans reach Urals and Caucasus by first snow. Imperial Japan attacks U.S. on December 3rd, occupies eastern Siberia, destroys entire American Pacific Fleet in Pearl Harbor. Hawaii, Philippines overrun, West Coast raided, landings made in Panama. U.S. declares war on Japan and Germany.​

As noted earlier, this ISOT occurs on December 1st so the Pacific Fleet remains intact while the Germans have already long since effectively beat the Soviets. Military technology is also quickly advancing in this timeline, and no doubt would continue here:

Technological developments 1940–1943: millimetric wave radar. Reaction-jet fighters in Domination, Germany, U.K., U.S. Helicopters deployed for observation, casualty evacuation by Draka, U.S., Germany. Draka test prototype tiltrotor VTOL transport, VTOL jet with plenum-chamber boost. Fuel-cell powered submarines by Germany, U.S. All-transistor programmable digital computer (U.S., 1943); first nuclear power reactors, plutonium (Domination 1941, U.S. 1942). Long-range liquid fuel rockets, Germany. Television-guided glide bombs, radar-guided cruise missiles (U.S. Both crude, but useable.)

For some more detailed differences in economics, general technology and culture, see here:
  1. Steam transport got under way about a generation earlier than in our history, and steam cars have been common since the 1820's, gradually improving. By the time the internal combustion engine came along, so much effort had gone into developing automotive steam engines that they remained dominant in all but aeronautical and armored fighting-vehicle applications. Petroleum or coal oil has been the dominant fuel for autosteamers since the first Egyptian oil fields were discovered (by teams drilling for water) in the 1810's. Modern (1940) autosteamers have pressure-injected flash boilers with high superheat, operating safely at 1,200 psi; the standard operating unit is a triple-expansion uniflow with extensive electric auxiliaries. Heavy, articulated trucks are common, particularly in the Domination. The autosteamers of the 40's represent a "mature" technology—fairly uniform everywhere, rugged, easy to maintain and very long-lasting. Performance and price are both lower than the equivalent internal-combustion machines of our history, but reliability is greater. Since they are relatively simple to manufacture, most nations with any pretensions to modernity have an autosteamer industry.
  2. Air transport became a practical reality in the 1870's; the Domination's need for fast long-distance transport provided the incentive. The first dirigibles were steam-turbine powered, with laminated wood frames and cloth hull coverings. By 1914, "metalclad" airships were the rule (a thin metal hull providing gas sealage, with an internal frame). Size had increased to 1,000 feet length, 250 feet maximum diameter, 8,000 mile range and 100 tons useful lift, burning a mixture of kerosene and hydrogen as fuel. Heavier-than-air planes were developed primarily to destroy dirigible bombers, and did so very effectively. Transport dirigibles continued in use, and by the 1940's could carry up to 200 tons for 12,000 miles at 90 mph. Long distance air freight dates from the 1890's (the decade of the first Atlantic crossing). The more primitive areas of the continental interiors were largely opened up by dirigibles: Yunnan, Tibet, the New Guinea highlands…
  3. Urban mass transit got an earlier start, since the autosteamer could be employed on city streets. Monorails evolved from elevated urban railways—first pneumatic, then electric, then powered by linear induction motors. Autosteamers and trucks served as feeders to railways from the beginning, ousting animal transport very gradually over a period of generations—first in the advanced countries, and spreading from there.
  4. "Modern" (Bauhaus) architecture never really got under way in the Domination's timeline; Frank Lloyd Wright practiced, but the German school was never born. Steel-frame and ferroconcrete construction are common, but the unadorned "glass shoebox" is reserved for industrial uses. Public and domestic architecture in the Domination is predominantly "Drakastyle"—an Art-Nouveauish version of earlier Classico-Mughal schools: lines are fairly simple, but with elaborately decorated surfaces (mosaic, murals, stained glass). Euro-American styles are variously historic, Art Nouveau-Art Deco, and "Mechanist." Skyscrapers are common in the larger American cities, but not much imitated elsewhere. Central air-conditioning was developed in the Domination in the 1850's, immediately after the invention of practical refrigeration, and spread rapidly to the tropical areas of the U.S.; small, single-dwelling units were available in America by the time of the Great War.
  5. Clothing makes less use of synthetic fabrics, since the natural equivalents are much cheaper than in our history. Draka clothing adapted early to tropical climates; it is loose, light, and nonconfining. This has had some influence on general Western, styles. Trousers for women were introduced for sporting purposes in the Domination in the 1860s, and for casual wear in "daring" circles by about 1900. The U.S. followed about a generation behind, and Europe still later. Hats remain common for both sexes past the 1950's; colors are usually brighter.
  6. Social intoxicants have a rather different history in the Domination's timeline. Both the United States and the Domination are exposed to cannabis on a large scale fairly early—the Draka from the North Africans and the U.S. from Mexico. Sporadic attempts at prohibition in the United States break down in the 1930's, with social acceptance (outside the Bible Belt) following during the Eurasian War. (In the process, ethnic Mexicans come to dominate organized crime in most major cities, much to the discomfort of the law-abiding majority of Hispanics.) Ganja is popular and legal in the Domination from the early nineteenth century; both countries launch occasional educational campaigns to prevent abuse. The first studies linking tobacco to cancer and heart disease are done in Germany in the 1930's and at first, widely discounted as Nazi propaganda. The U.S. is otherwise a spirits-and-beer country, with some wine-drinking enclaves. The Domination is a wine-and-brandy region with a minor key in (German and Scandinavian-influenced) beer.
  7. Solar-power units (glass circulating-water collectors, with underground pressurized-water heat sinks) were developed for isolated plantations in the Domination in the 1860's, and spread widely in high-sunlight tropical regions. By the 1920's most ranches and farms in the American Sunbelt have one.
  8. Household appliances (vacuum cleaners, etc.) are primitive, and outside the U.S. rare.

So, what happens from here?
 
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ATP

Well-known member
A yes the Stupid virus which seems to have effected everybody except the Draka.

Draka were affected,too.They had Italy.They decide to attack germans through mountains ,and attacked...georgia.In Caucassus,not USA.
If they were smart,they would go through Italy and take first Austria and then Germany and France.
Considering that Drakia have 13.000 supertanks against 4.000 obsolate germans,it should end quickly

About better technology - applied only to Drakia.Which have tanks with 120mm guns and armour.
Germans - best what they have were KV1 with 88mm gun.

What would happen? idiot Drakagermans would face idiot DrakaUSA.Since USA was stronger,they would win.
 

lordhen

Well-known member
Draka were affected,too.They had Italy.They decide to attack germans through mountains ,and attacked...georgia.In Caucassus,not USA.
If they were smart,they would go through Italy and take first Austria and then Germany and France.
Considering that Drakia have 13.000 supertanks against 4.000 obsolate germans,it should end quickly

About better technology - applied only to Drakia.Which have tanks with 120mm guns and armour.
Germans - best what they have were KV1 with 88mm gun.

What would happen? idiot Drakagermans would face idiot DrakaUSA.Since USA was stronger,they would win.
And they would have the support of OTL United Kingdom, but then again Draka Germany might be able to pull of a certain seaborne operation before the Draka USA can do anything.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Weren't the Draka so OP they had an Abrams-equivalent in WW2?

Yes,they have.No special alloys for armour ,but in 1942 it not mattered - germans had nothing capable of destroing it,even 88mm AA guns which worked for KW1 were too weak.
Well,105mm AA guns worked,but they were in Germany,not on frontlines.

If Drakia had that in 1942,then Germany should have E-50,soviet T.62,and england Centurions with 105mm guns.
It have no sense,nobody made such tanks in 1942 not becouse they do not wonted,but becouse they have no technology for that.
 

lordhen

Well-known member
If Drakia had that in 1942,then Germany should have E-50,soviet T.62,and england Centurions with 105mm guns.
It have no sense,nobody made such tanks in 1942 not becouse they do not wonted,but becouse they have no technology for that.

If Germany had that then they would not suffer from the Stupid virus and would be somewhat able to slow the Draka down enough to get their hands on the Atom Bomb which would level the playing field some bit.
 

ATP

Well-known member
If Germany had that then they would not suffer from the Stupid virus and would be somewhat able to slow the Draka down enough to get their hands on the Atom Bomb which would level the playing field some bit.

Especially,that they allied with France,De gaulle come back.French scientists was good,with german added they would have A bombs when Draka had them.

After german killed Hitler,poles would add their recruits,too.At least 30 fresh dyvisions.
War of atrition would be lost by Drakians - they were no superhumans,and they could field no more then 5 millions of soldiers.
Jannisaries were recruited only from loyal serfs,which was minority.
 

History Learner

Well-known member
Since nobody in the Drakaverse except the Draka possesses any agency, presumably they sit there and do nothing waiting for the Draka who don't exist in this timeline to come and conquer them.
A yes the Stupid virus which seems to have effected everybody except the Draka.

I give Stirling a pass until after the Eurasian War; Nazi U-Boats had closed off the Atlantic preventing the UK from being used as an unsinkable aircraft carrier while the Japanese had overrun the Philippines, Hawaii and the Panama Canal. In the ATL, all of those regions are American States, and Japan even tries to land in Mexico in 1943. Given the inability to get at the Germans and the pressing need-both political and military-to fight the Japanese, it's understandable the U.S. went with the Pacific First strategy and then was too sucked in to deal with the Draka when they emerged as the main threat until Japan was defeated.

Weren't the Draka so OP they had an Abrams-equivalent in WW2?

IIRC, their Citizen units had a tank with a 120mm gun, which is where the Abrams claims come from; it is stated explicitly in the books that the Germans/Europeans did develop Tank Destroyers to fight them, along with using artillery, airpower, etc. It should be stated the vast majority of the Draka military, however, is composed of Janissary units which had equipment much below the quality of the Citizens and was comparable or below that which the other powers used.
 
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History Learner

Well-known member
And they would have the support of OTL United Kingdom, but then again Draka Germany might be able to pull of a certain seaborne operation before the Draka USA can do anything.

This seems exceedingly likely, given the U-Boats in the Draka ATL had cut the sealanes to Britain in 1940 and fought the RAF to a draw; the saving grace for the UK appears to have been because of the German focus on knocking out the Soviets in 1941 and from there deterring the Draka from anything against them.

As starvation sets in and production collapses in this ATL, the Germans can probably invade in 1943 and win, before DK-verse Americans are able to win the Battle of the Atlantic. By 1944, both sides will also likely be testing and deploying atomic weapons, which then puts a serious damper on further direct combat between them.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
What happened in Draka TL ? they got still existing soviets,weaker germany,and weaker USA.

Soviets would fought Draka to the last man,so no easy conqest there.But - draka could/and should/ attack through Italian mountains.
Germany would fall in one year,but it gave time for France/german remnants/british hold Rhine river.German forces in the east evacuate to defend Berlin and die there,so soviets would be on Oder line.

In the same time,stronger Japan would massacre weaker USA.USA in this scenario made peace loosing Hawaii and entire Pacyfic.
Or,stronger Japan 1.12.41 see that world change and prolonge taking with USA.
When FDR see new reality,both sides agree to peace.
Or,they could continue fighting on USA land.

So,we would either have England/France/Soviets vs Draka and USA vs Japan - in this scenario,both sides eventually would made peace,with draka getting Germany,Balkans and maybe Poland,and Japan getting Hawaii.

Or,USA would not fight Japan or made peace with them.In this scenario,Drakian would fall when everybody gang on them.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Draka in our world collapse as suddenly things like "logistics", "manpower", "human psychology" and "the economic problems of central planning/a slave economy" start applying to them and nobody sits around stupidly waiting to be conquered like the AFD did.

Yes,i would love to see their faces when they undarstandt,that raping puppies and impaling nuns not longer gave them victory.
 

ATP

Well-known member
S&M Stirling can't save 'em now!

Indeed.They would die,trying to the last moment win by raping puppies.I have nothing against dystopia,1984 for example is great - but evil forces winning by stupidity is well,stupid.

It is as if Sralin conqered Europe by removing nails of prisoners in Gulag.
 

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